I like Kamen Rider Kiva, But....
- Thread starter Red Infinity Ranger
- Start date
KamenRiderZheneraru
What is love? Baby don't hurt me
Daikamonohashi
Member
*Bears so much contempt towards Kiva.*
musashi03
HEROW
Oh........and Mio sucks
Gotta agree... Loved her as Mari, can't believe they'd re-cast her into a sucky role...
Japaneseseriesfan
A simple passerby...
I don't see how you guys like BlackFang's idea of the "ultimate Showdown" between Saga and Kiva.
It's not Black and Shadowmoon. Wataru was an orphan for chirstsakes. You want them to develop him into a character that goes so mad to the point that not having a family member didn't matter to him anymore!?
I think the ending was ok. It could have been done SO MUCH better, but it WAS ok. It was ENOUGH. Wataru finally has a REAL family. He finally has someone to look up to that is actually alive other than his dead father.
I think the time travel was ok as well, it was really a touchy arc. The one thing I hated was the whole emo thing Wataru had going on. If they had a better reason other than Mio's death (which I think was a good trigger, except it should have been played out to be UNRELATED to why Wataru even went to the past).
The Arms monsters things, I agree. However, I think that a promise between friends SHOWED their friendship and character development, from not being able to stand each other, to becoming actual friends. The ceremony **** would have maybe pleased most people, but I think this was enough. It could have been better, but it was enough.
The under usage of MANY things in the series does piss me off.
Then there's the episode where Otoya POSSESSED Wataru. That just pissed me off THE MOST. Having that happen, it should have stayed and lead right into the Time Travel.
Then there's the whole Dark Kiva as a danger in the past. What I thought should have happened was this:
Otoya and Arms monsters obtains Kivat Bat II. The bat itself is also willing, but Otoya is not a Fangire. They go through a ritual to help him be able to become Dark Kiva.
As Dark Kiva, Otoya can't control the power. IXA fights him, but fails and is ultimately destroyed. The Arms monsters arrive and is somehow able to shut him down together, and it results into them taking his soul out of his body while his body is still rampaging. They perform one last ritual, which ends Dark Kiva's control over Otoya and he collapse. His soul isn't able to return to his body. So he wonders around as a soul in the last moments of his life, talking to a lot of people. Then he makes the Arms Monsters swear upon their souls to take care of his son. They agree. Otoya's soul disappears, but somehow, it ends up in the future, in his son's body as a side effect of the rituals he performed (there are consequences on the rituals). Otoya's soul goes to rest, somehow, in the time travel arc when Wataru is able to let go of his dad's spirit.
That's how I hoped Kiva would have been written.
It's not Black and Shadowmoon. Wataru was an orphan for chirstsakes. You want them to develop him into a character that goes so mad to the point that not having a family member didn't matter to him anymore!?
I think the ending was ok. It could have been done SO MUCH better, but it WAS ok. It was ENOUGH. Wataru finally has a REAL family. He finally has someone to look up to that is actually alive other than his dead father.
I think the time travel was ok as well, it was really a touchy arc. The one thing I hated was the whole emo thing Wataru had going on. If they had a better reason other than Mio's death (which I think was a good trigger, except it should have been played out to be UNRELATED to why Wataru even went to the past).
The Arms monsters things, I agree. However, I think that a promise between friends SHOWED their friendship and character development, from not being able to stand each other, to becoming actual friends. The ceremony **** would have maybe pleased most people, but I think this was enough. It could have been better, but it was enough.
The under usage of MANY things in the series does piss me off.
Then there's the episode where Otoya POSSESSED Wataru. That just pissed me off THE MOST. Having that happen, it should have stayed and lead right into the Time Travel.
Then there's the whole Dark Kiva as a danger in the past. What I thought should have happened was this:
Otoya and Arms monsters obtains Kivat Bat II. The bat itself is also willing, but Otoya is not a Fangire. They go through a ritual to help him be able to become Dark Kiva.
As Dark Kiva, Otoya can't control the power. IXA fights him, but fails and is ultimately destroyed. The Arms monsters arrive and is somehow able to shut him down together, and it results into them taking his soul out of his body while his body is still rampaging. They perform one last ritual, which ends Dark Kiva's control over Otoya and he collapse. His soul isn't able to return to his body. So he wonders around as a soul in the last moments of his life, talking to a lot of people. Then he makes the Arms Monsters swear upon their souls to take care of his son. They agree. Otoya's soul disappears, but somehow, it ends up in the future, in his son's body as a side effect of the rituals he performed (there are consequences on the rituals). Otoya's soul goes to rest, somehow, in the time travel arc when Wataru is able to let go of his dad's spirit.
That's how I hoped Kiva would have been written.
mkdlstudios
Cobra Unit reject
What about the early years of the Fangire King, the 1986 one? Was he given a human name? And how come Otoya's birthday is October 8, 1963?
The time travel...was OK?! It didn't even relate to the theme of vampires and iconic horror characters! Unless of course, you call Back To The Future! and other time travelling movies horror movies. Two episodes were wasted for the time traveling arc and the arc basically RESOLVED nothing. Neither did it explain anything beside Nago's button fetish. Which nobody really cares(right?).
Wataru may be an orphan, but that doesn't mean that he and Taiga can't havea duel to the death and then they both cry about it having to end this way. Like just how Shadowmoon and Kotaro went down that path. The way the Arms monsters talked about the "agreement" to Otoya, it was as if they went through an oath or something, but then it just ended up being an old cool "promise me, you'll take care of my son." They could had handled it way better than that. As for the ending be okay as well? Seriously, UFOs may be an iconic horror character too but, the way they mixed time traveled, neo-vampire-fangires, and Otaya coming back as Wataru's son and making an annoying entrance? Just no.
Kiva had a lot of potential, but like Decade, it's all wasted. The first vampire based Kamen Rider. Meh.
Wataru may be an orphan, but that doesn't mean that he and Taiga can't havea duel to the death and then they both cry about it having to end this way. Like just how Shadowmoon and Kotaro went down that path. The way the Arms monsters talked about the "agreement" to Otoya, it was as if they went through an oath or something, but then it just ended up being an old cool "promise me, you'll take care of my son." They could had handled it way better than that. As for the ending be okay as well? Seriously, UFOs may be an iconic horror character too but, the way they mixed time traveled, neo-vampire-fangires, and Otaya coming back as Wataru's son and making an annoying entrance? Just no.
Kiva had a lot of potential, but like Decade, it's all wasted. The first vampire based Kamen Rider. Meh.
Lynxara
Nice post!!
Time travel was pretty clearly the story theme that Inoue was most interested in exploring, though. On a writing level, there's nothing memorable about Kiva except the parallel story structure. You see a world evolve over time by telling the story of two different heroes in parallel. Time-travel becomes a basically logical story development if you look at things that way.
Kiva's horror stuff strikes me as clearly something the toy guys and producers came up with, probably before Inoue or any other writers were even on board with the show. Some writers will engage with the themes suggested by the toys, but others tend to wander off into telling stories they personally find more interesting. Inoue... well, he wanders off, more often than not.
I've always been of two minds about Kiva's writing structure. On the one hand, it's a pretty clever idea and I can't think of a lot of other TV shows that have attempted anything like it. On the other hand, approaching the show that way meant you basically needed two full casts who had half their usual screen time.
Kiva ends up suffering from what I sometimes call "Gundamitis," because it's a sickness you typically see in Tomino-style mecha shows. The show has a ton of characters, many of them with legitimately interesting hooks. The sheer volume of characters means most of them don't have real personalities, though, and only a handful of them are developed to any substantial degree.
If I was diagnosing the big problem with Kiva, I'd probably start with the characters. Wataru's personality is just illogical given his stated backstory and otherwise he's bland. Otoya has personality, but it's cartoonishly exaggerated and ultimately inappropriate for his role in the story. If you could make those two work better, I think the rest would fall into place.
Japaneseseriesfan
A simple passerby...
You know, I think that it's a fact that most HJU members probably would have said the same thing as you because you all expect a lot from the franchise. And most of you are pretty pessimistic about A LOT of things coming from Toku.
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