The Wrestling Thread: 1...2...Only 2!

First, Homicide and Betsy Ruth, now Travis freaking Tomko?

Tomko is fucked. He gets fired by WWE, goes to TNA with a solid run, gets fired from TNA, goes to WWE for a few weeks, gets fired by WWE, returns to TNA but now fat, does nothing, gets fired by TNA.

Incredible career.

scikaiju said:

You may have to wait awhile for heyman to show up. I got to find the article but according to him TNA is ready for his help yet. He as certain condition, ther main being he wants control of everything except financials. He also goes to say that the "established" stars wouldn't be around for long under his watch. Granted he might keep a couple like Angle for some star power, but somebody like say Nash and Hogan, probably be shown the door.

EDIT: Found it http://www.pwinsider.com/article/50020/paul-heyman-on-tna-they-arent-ready-for-my-help.html?p=1

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Everything Heyman would do would be good. Nobody wants to see these Legends anymore... Guys like Dreamer, Raven, etc.. are the "New" Legends of Wrestling and people still enjoy them but Heyman would totally push the young boyz which is what TNA should be doing. ****, WWE is pushing the young talent like no tomorrow.

Alright, who wants to buy WWE: Satan's Prison - The Anthology of the Elimination Chamber (2010)? Benoit's in that DVD.

Forever Knight said:

Tomko is fucked. He gets fired by WWE, goes to TNA with a solid run, gets fired from TNA, goes to WWE for a few weeks, gets fired by WWE, returns to TNA but now fat, does nothing, gets fired by TNA.

Incredible career.



Everything Heyman would do would be good. Nobody wants to see these Legends anymore... Guys like Dreamer, Raven, etc.. are the "New" Legends of Wrestling and people still enjoy them but Heyman would totally push the young boyz which is what TNA should be doing. ****, WWE is pushing the young talent like no tomorrow.

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He got fat....That should count for something.

Everything Heyman would do would be good. Nobody wants to see these Legends anymore... Guys like Dreamer, Raven, etc.. are the "New" Legends of Wrestling and people still enjoy them but Heyman would totally push the young boyz which is what TNA should be doing. ****, WWE is pushing the young talent like no tomorrow.

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Yeah, that's great and all but Heyman doesn't know a damn thing about how to market "young boyz". WWE can push new talent since it's been around for decades and established legends of their own.

That's how they can push the worst champion ever in Sheamus and not get effected ratings wise or buyrates. If TNA pushed Sheamus to the moon, they would probably get the lowest ratings ever...and rightfully so.

Heyman is full of ****. Every time TNA is brought up his answer is "they not ready for me" or some other ego ass answer. If he REALLY cared about the business, he would be trying to get a job in TNA for it to be successful instead of asking for 5 million dollar contracts and wanting to fire things that are working like Flair or RVD in favor of "Young Guys" who would get underpaid eventually and leave him until TNA turned into ECW.

TNA is doing a fairly good job at pushing Beer Money, MCMG, Styles, Kaz and Douglas Williams.

Heyman is not really needed totally. Add Raven to creative and your good.

Heyman could do wonders for TNA, but truth be told he probably is too good for them. His brand of creative is just the boost the company needs to get back on its feet (as far as I'm concerned they've been a laughing stock ever since Hogan and Bischoff stepped in), but TNA's agenda at the moment is more about keeping stale talent fresh for as long as it can instead of working with the wealth of talent right under their noses, and it's been that way since they got their own show. You're never going to see guys like Jay Lethal or the MCMG front-lining the franchise because TNA management is too set in their ways to give them a chance to lead. They're going to keep falling back on the Hogans, the Ric Flairs, the Stings, the Ravens and Tommy Dreamers and all that **** that hasn't been relevant in ages because that's what people know, and TNA Wrestling isn't what the fans want to see... it's just the name-brand stars they're buying. That's how they hold on to their smattering of mark viewers that still think it's hip to talk about WCW and ECW and that's why they'll never break out and be popular with more dedicated wrestling fans: because they choose to hide behind known faces and gimmicks and don't have the balls to put their own original product out there to compete with WWE. It's pathetic. I never thought I would actually admire WWE as a promotion.

Bolt said:

You're never going to see guys like Jay Lethal or the MCMG front-lining the franchise.

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Which is a damn shame. After seeing him do the Black Machismo gimmick, I think Lethal has the potential/charisma to do it.

Bolt said:

Heyman could do wonders for TNA, but truth be told he probably is too good for them. His brand of creative is just the boost the company needs to get back on its feet (as far as I'm concerned they've been a laughing stock ever since Hogan and Bischoff stepped in), but TNA's agenda at the moment is more about keeping stale talent fresh for as long as it can instead of working with the wealth of talent right under their noses, and it's been that way since they got their own show. You're never going to see guys like Jay Lethal or the MCMG front-lining the franchise because TNA management is too set in their ways to give them a chance to lead. They're going to keep falling back on the Hogans, the Ric Flairs, the Stings, the Ravens and Tommy Dreamers and all that **** that hasn't been relevant in ages because that's what people know, and TNA Wrestling isn't what the fans want to see... it's just the name-brand stars they're buying. That's how they hold on to their smattering of mark viewers that still think it's hip to talk about WCW and ECW and that's why they'll never break out and be popular with more dedicated wrestling fans: because they choose to hide behind known faces and gimmicks and don't have the balls to put their own original product out there to compete with WWE. It's pathetic. I never thought I would actually admire WWE as a promotion.

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All the things you've described is basically how WCW declined to the point of getting bought out by Vince McMahon.

As much as I hate how the WWE has been doing things lately by going "PG" and pushing talent like Shaemus to the top TOO QUICKLY (****, Kurt Angle & Chris Jericho had to work their way up before they became World Champions in the WWF.....it took Shaemus only 6 fucking months C'MON), at least the WWE is always trying to breed and push their young talent to the fore front. I mean, the creation of WWF's Attitude era was a result of the WWF's pushing of young talent.........and it'll be a matter of time before one of the WWE's young guys emerge into an iconic-caliber like The Rock, Stone Cold, and many others. Sure there's Cena, but it's quite clear his name is being worn out too.....and Daniel Bryan looks like the guy who can be next in line to step up to that level.

All that I ask the WWE to do is to make the young guys EARN their way up, not push them at a rapid pace like Shaemus. I mean I apologize if I offended anybody about my comments about Shaemus, but what disgusted me the most was that they pushed Shaemus WAY TOO SOON into the spotlight. Guys like Orton, Cena, Edge, hell even the top guys in the Attitude era had to work their way up before the spotlight was even given to them. But Shaemus got the spotlight within less than a year.......and I really think that's a slap in the face to the other guys that had to work their way up the ranks of the WWE/F in 1-2 years. I mean kudos to Shaemus' indy wrestling career, but the fact of the matter is that once you're in the viewing eye of the WWE........YOU HAVE A BLANK SLATE, and you have to work your way up like everyone else. But not Shaemus.......it took him less than 5-6 months to be pushed in the spotlight. I feel that's a slap in the face for the guys that had to work their way up for about 1-2 years before they were warranted spotlight in the WWF.

That's really my true feelings about that, and I apologize for my previous rant about Shaemus since it made me look unintelligent about professional wrestling in general.

Except Kurt Angle won the Intercontental title, European title, King of the Ring and Heavyweight title all within his first year in the WWE. Jack Swagger won the ECW title four months after debuting. Hell Carlito won the US title in his TV in ring debut. Hulk Hogan won the Heavyweight title a month or so in his second WWF run after being gone for years. There's a whole history of stuff like this throughout the business.

As far as Shemus's run, I'll agree it was a little too soon. But they made him look like a monster threat as soon as he debuted on RAW. They made him a monster on ECW too. And after months, if not years, of fans bitching about there nobody new at the main event level we finally had a fresh face in the title mix, and internet fans still bitched because it wasn't one of the guys they wanted. I personally only have one problem with both of Shemus's runs, I called it on TNA with AJ and I'll call it here, bad booking. After looking like a fluke champion in his first run Triple H spent months making him look like a monster again. Now he wins again it again and he's back to looking like a fluke champion. I guess being the son-in-law's work out buddy only goes so far.

scikaiju said:

Except Kurt Angle won the Intercontental title, European title, King of the Ring and Heavyweight title all within his first year in the WWE. Jack Swagger won the ECW title four months after debuting. Hell Carlito won the US title in his TV in ring debut. Hulk Hogan won the Heavyweight title a month or so in his second WWF run after being gone for years. There's a whole history of stuff like this throughout the business.

As far as Shemus's run, I'll agree it was a little too soon. But they made him look like a monster threat as soon as he debuted on RAW. They made him a monster on ECW too. And after months, if not years, of fans bitching about there nobody new at the main event level we finally had a fresh face in the title mix, and internet fans still bitched because it wasn't one of the guys they wanted. I personally only have one problem with both of Shemus's runs, I called it on TNA with AJ and I'll call it here, bad booking. After looking like a fluke champion in his first run Triple H spent months making him look like a monster again. Now he wins again it again and he's back to looking like a fluke champion. I guess being the son-in-law's work out buddy only goes so far.

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Hulk Hogan is major, MAJOR exception. He already earned his reputation in the WWE/F, so I don't think working his way up had to be a factor ever again. Jack Swagger and the ECW World Title = meh........the ECW Title was already losing some credibility before Swagger even won the title, but I do get your point consider Swagger did just win the World Heavyweight Title about a month after he was moved to the Smackdown brand.

As for Kurt Angle, I think that's kinda the point I was trying to prove. Sure, it was still too quick for my taste........but Kurt Angle started out by going after the 3rd tier/2nd tier titles in the Euro Championship and Intercontinental Title. Then he went for the King of the Ring, and he won his #1 contender's spot for the WWF Title. Then he won the title, and he proved to be a damn good one too with his decent (even though it was for about 4 months) tenure as first time champion. Even with Angle's quick push to the top, he was still trying to fight thru the lower ranks before officially earning his spotlight.

Shaemus never went thru that process of going for lower-tier titles and earning his way up for #1 contendership...........he got that almost right away. It kinda reminds me about Brock Lesnar's short tenure in the WWE.......it's almost strikingly similar to Lesnar's tenure in the WWE. Lesnar never really earned his way to the top, except when he entered the King of the Ring and won. But I never really liked how they executed Lesnar's rise to the top either at the end of the day.

But overall, I understand and agree with your point. Booking is basically the key major factor to all of this.