Samurai Sentai Shinkenger - Talk Up!

lazycoconut said:

He could have stopped Juzo at the beginning of the episode, when Juzo was unconscious. Later he said he hesitated not just because of Uramasa, but also because Juzo was hurt! What better time to attack? Seriously, how can any character be as pathetic as this?

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And yet when was the last time you saw an honorable samurai strike a wounded man down. He couldn't do it because thats not the kind of person he was. In my opinion it would have gone against his character to strike him down, and in a way, it was against his character to go up against Juuzou the second time. He knew he couldnt win, but he didnt want to seem like a weak samurai, so he went for it. Again, I dont think that makes him a weak character, or a traitor. Just an honorable one. Afterall, a weak character wouldnt have gone off by himself to face Juuzou.

[hide]The Shinkenger spoiler thread shows that Genta is missing from the shots of female!Red's posedown, so presumably at this point he has gone off with Takeru. Could it be that he is repaying Takeru for the Juzo thing? That would go some way to repairing his character but the damage is already done ...[/hide]

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If anything, he's traveling with Takeru because that was his original oath, to stick with Takeru, regardless of whether Takeru is ShinkenRed or not. I dont think it has anything to do with Juuzou.

Genta does have the heart of a samurai. He went so far as to plead to whatever humanity Juzo had left in him. The same with Mako & Dayu. For anyone to strike a man while he's down is nothing but a coward. If the Shinkengers stoop to Gedoshu's level, they'll be worst than them.

lazycoconut said:

He could have stopped Juzo at the beginning of the episode, when Juzo was unconscious. Later he said he hesitated not just because of Uramasa, but also because Juzo was hurt! What better time to attack? Seriously, how can any character be as pathetic as this?

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Shinkenger is based on the whole idea that the team live as modern day samurai. Samurai traditionally live by a code of conduct, known as Bushido. And this code of conduct has 7 virtues, rectitude (exact conformity to truth or to the rules prescribed for moral conduct) being one of them.

If Genta did strike Juuzo while he was down, not only would it have been out of character, but he would also have gone against his own morality, therein violating one of the main ideals of Bushido, the code that samurai are meant to live by.

If they all acted on a whim and they didn't follow the principles of Bushido, what kind of samurai would they be? The would be nothing more than your average group of colorful vigilantes with no respect for any laws or social conventions.

Kenori said:

And yet she was willing to fall to gedou just like her comrades. Just because she likes to cook and is more of a house maker, doesnt mean she's weak.

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Yes, it does. Being a samurai is about killing things, not cooking and popping out babies! Mako is one of the most laughable, pathetic (and sexist, too) characters to come out of Sentai in recent years - and then in just one episode the show made Genta worse than her!

Kenori said:

And Genta is NOT a traitor...not even close. He just couldn't bring himself to kill the man. He was human afterall.

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But Juzo isn't human. Genta knows this and he knew that he was putting Takeru directly in harm's way by refusing to kill Juzo. That is betrayal of the highest order. If anything, it would have been more noble for Chiaki and Ryuunosuke to let Genta die rather than stepping in to save him.

Mang0TarD said:

If Genta did strike Juuzo while he was down, not only would it have been out of character, but he would also have gone against his own morality, therein violating one of the main ideals of Bushido, the code that samurai are meant to live by.

If they all acted on a whim and they didn't follow the principles of Bushido, what kind of samurai would they be? The would be nothing more than your average group of colorful vigilantes with no respect for any laws or social conventions.

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How can that be true? If killing Juzo while he was down would violate some kind of moral principle, Ryuunosuke wouldn't have criticised Genta for failing to do it. Even Mako indicated that she didn't approve of his actions. Juzo isn't a fellow samurai, so the Shinkengers are not obligated to behave morally towards him.

A samurai doesn't going around killing things, Bushido doesn't allow that. Not to mention that it not just cover fellow samurai, but aspects of life itself.

lazycoconut said:

Yes, it does. Being a samurai is about killing things, not cooking and popping out babies! Mako is one of the most laughable, pathetic (and sexist, too) characters to come out of Sentai in recent years - and then in just one episode the show made Genta worse than her!

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Whgat is exactly so wrong about cooking and having children? Mako is a human first, samurai second. Not every woman in the world has to be this strong feminist left wing nutjob. There are women out there who want nothing more than to settle down with a husband and be a house wife, and theres nothing wron with that.

But Juzo isn't human. Genta knows this and he knew that he was putting Takeru directly in harm's way by refusing to kill Juzo. That is betrayal of the highest order. If anything, it would have been more noble for Chiaki and Ryuunosuke to let Genta die rather than stepping in to save him.

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But thats just it, he is human. He fell to Gedou, sure, but somewhere deep down Juuzou is still human. I think Genta knows this on some level and was trying to appeal to the mans human side, because he knew that he couldnt beat Juuzou in an out and out fight.

How can that be true? If killing Juzo while he was down would violate some kind of moral principle, Ryuunosuke wouldn't have criticised Genta for failing to do it. Even Mako indicated that she didn't approve of his actions. Juzo isn't a fellow samurai, so the Shinkengers are not obligated to behave morally towards him.

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Ryuunosuke is prone to rash actions and speaking. Its been shown in the past. Ryuunosuke criticized Genta without thinking, and later apologized.

And Juuzou is the epitome of a Ronin, or masterless samurai. Sure, the Shinkengers could have struck him down. But by not doing so, they prove themselves better than the gedou.

Kenori said:

Whgat is exactly so wrong about cooking and having children? Mako is a human first, samurai second. Not every woman in the world has to be this strong feminist left wing nutjob. There are women out there who want nothing more than to settle down with a husband and be a house wife, and theres nothing wron with that.

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I've been over this in other posts. Cooking, cleaning and childcare are things even the dimmest idiot could do, and are a waste of any intelligence or talent a woman might have had. Trying to portray Mako as a role model for girls, and especially the likely outcome that she will end up with Takeru, is nothing but misogynist propaganda on Toei's part.

Kenori said:

But thats just it, he is human. He fell to Gedou, sure, but somewhere deep down Juuzou is still human. I think Genta knows this on some level and was trying to appeal to the mans human side, because he knew that he couldnt beat Juuzou in an out and out fight.

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He wouldn't need to if he'd done the right thing and killed Juzo while Juzo couldn't fight back!

Kenori said:

And Juuzou is the epitome of a Ronin, or masterless samurai. Sure, the Shinkengers could have struck him down. But by not doing so, they prove themselves better than the gedou.

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In what way? Is it really worth endangering their own lives, and those of others just to prove some abstract moral point?

lazycoconut said:

I've been over this in other posts. Cooking, cleaning and childcare are things even the dimmest idiot could do, and are a waste of any intelligence or talent a woman might have had. Trying to portray Mako as a role model for girls, and especially the likely outcome that she will end up with Takeru, is nothing but misogynist propaganda on Toei's part.

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You know what, I can keep this up, but its not getting anywhere. So nevermind. Just believe what you will, I highly doubt anyone else agrees.

So just, whatever...

Kenori said:

You know what, I can keep this up, but its not getting anywhere. So nevermind. Just believe what you will, I highly doubt anyone else agrees.

So just, whatever...

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:laugh:

And still nothing Mako has done on screen is as bad as putting the entire world in danger by taking the risk that Juzo would survive to go through with Akumaro's plan. Just when it looked like Shinkenger's plot was picking up, too ...

Bushido *is* an abstract moral point. It doesn't matter how we feel about it. Heck, there's an entire Trope dedicated to it. But Bushido is part of what makes the characters themselves. If you try to change that now, they would be acting contrary to the person they had been for the last 40+ episodes. They could do it, sure, but they'd have to pay for it. And there aren't really enough episodes left for them to deal with the aftermath at this point.