Samurai Sentai Shinkenger - Talk Up!

[Kenori]

Episode 43 also made me lose any respect for Genta. By refusing to kill Juzo he lost any worth he had as a character. He is as weak and stupid as Mako, if not more so.

Wow...because he refused to kill a sentient living being, you find him weak and stupid...good call... >.>

 

[lazycoconut]

And how come Mako is stupid? Did she do anything other than almost letting Dayuu kill her? Mako has a big heart so I think it's understandable. Besides, she's made up her mind to be stronger already

I've been over this in other posts but Mako's problem as a character is that she is too emotional, too hung up on being "compassionate" and too tied to her ridiculous dream of being a full time house slave to understand that such things are incompatible with being a hero. Genta does realise that a hero can't afford to be sentimental (which is why he apologised to the other Shinkengers) but if he hadn't let his emotions rule him, he would not have let Juzo escape and put his teammates in danger, as well as taking the risk that Juzo would go along with Akumaro's plan.

 

[Kenori]

I'm not so sure about Juzzou being a stray, half Gedou half human. He did make the cut Akumaro requested, although after he cut down Akumaro. Therefore, if he was really half Gedou half human, hell would open.

But it's also really strange that if Dayuu and Juzzou are full Gedoushuu then why they don't need any water:-?

As for Uramasa's origin, Juzzou himself said that he knew it was made from his family in the first place so I don't think it would make any change to his action. The guy is really wicked, the most wicked villain so far:thumbs:

Here's what I think.

Its possible that because they were human before falling, they're able to live as humans. Its possible they need to actually eat and drink like humans. They also have human forms (Well Juuzou does, I dont know if Dayuu does, but I'm sure she does). Seems at the very least Juuzou can't quite let go of his humanity...

 

[lazycoconut]

Wow...because he refused to kill a sentient living being, you find him weak and stupid...good call... >.>

Yes! It basically came down to Juzo's life vs the lives of the Shinkengers and potentially everyone else on earth. Juzo's family is already dead, so their souls being contained in the blade of his sword is no excuse for not killing him.

 

[Kenori]

I've been over this in other posts but Mako's problem as a character is that she is too emotional, too hung up on being "compassionate" and too tied to her ridiculous dream of being a full time house slave to understand that such things are incompatible with being a hero. Genta does realise that a hero can't afford to be sentimental (which is why he apologised to the other Shinkengers) but if he hadn't let his emotions rule him, he would not have let Juzo escape and put his teammates in danger, as well as taking the risk that Juzo would go along with Akumaro's plan.

But you call Mako a weak character because of that? Nah, I think she's just a strong a character as the others. You can tell that Mako is still willing to do what is necessary. I think her fights near the beginning with Dayuu really brought her resolve the forefront, I wouldnt say she's been very lenient since then.

 

[lazycoconut]

Here's what I think.

Its possible that because they were human before falling, they're able to live as humans. Its possible they need to actually eat and drink like humans. They also have human forms (Well Juuzou does, I dont know if Dayuu does, but I'm sure she does). Seems at the very least Juuzou can't quite let go of his humanity...

The Gedoushuu are supposedly fallen spirits. Potentially, they were all human once - just because Doukoku's or Shitari's human forms haven't appeared in the show doesn't mean they were never human. And we've seen Juzo eat Genta's sushi, which at the very least means he can still eat ...

But you call Mako a weak character because of that? Nah, I think she's just a strong a character as the others. You can tell that Mako is still willing to do what is necessary. I think her fights near the beginning with Dayuu really brought her resolve the forefront, I wouldnt say she's been very lenient since then.

Mako is so idealistic that she can't see how weak she really is (and neither can her fans.) Just when she was beginning to, Jii gave her back her cookbooks and told her to get back in the kitchen, and all was happy and rosy in Mako-land again. Genta knew that failing to kill Juzo would be wrong, but he did it anyway. Mako may be weak but Genta is weaker and a traitor.

 

[Kenori]

Yes! It basically came down to Juzo's life vs the lives of the Shinkengers and potentially everyone else on earth. Juzo's family is already dead, so their souls being contained in the blade of his sword is no excuse for not killing him.

But I dont think that makes him a weak character. He tried to stop Juuzou, he knew he couldnt stop Juuzou, it probably hit him as he was staring Juuzou down, so he did the only thing he could think. Show his submission and make a plea. Genta pleaded to the man's human side. It didnt work....or did it....

All I'm going to say that if Juuzou makes a face heel turn like I except him to, you can thank Genta.

Mako is so idealistic that she can't see how weak she really is (and neither can her fans.) Just when she was beginning to, Jii gave her back her cookbooks and told her to get back in the kitchen, and all was happy and rosy in Mako-land again. Genta knew that failing to kill Juzo would be wrong, but he did it anyway. Mako may be weak but Genta is weaker and a traitor.

And yet she was willing to fall to gedou just like her comrades. Just because she likes to cook and is more of a house maker, doesnt mean she's weak.

If it does, then Louis Griffin would like a word with you.

And Genta is NOT a traitor...not even close. He just couldn't bring himself to kill the man. He was human afterall.

 

[Lynxara]

I think her fights near the beginning with Dayuu really brought her resolve the forefront, I wouldnt say she's been very lenient since then.

Be aware that you're trying to speak with someone who has clearly stated that she will simply make things up to support her opinions of the characters when the show doesn't give her anything to work with. You are, in effect, talking to a wall.

Regarding Juuzou, the show seems to be teasing the idea that the Gedou who are fallen humans could perhaps choose to live as humans again if they were able to give up the negative emotions that made them into Gedou.

The show has also established that for Juuzou and Dayuu, these passions are so strong that it would be like giving up their identity... but on the other hand, they clearly have more sympathy for the human condition than the Gedou who are plain old monsters.

I would have expected a redemption arc for Juuzou and Dayuu out of this set-up, but I'm really not sure the series is going there. To be honest, I'm not sure what Shinkenger has in mind to do with them. Lots of possibilities at this point.

 

[lazycoconut]

But I dont think that makes him a weak character. He tried to stop Juuzou, he knew he couldnt stop Juuzou, it probably hit him as he was staring Juuzou down, so he did the only thing he could think. Show his submission and make a plea. Genta pleaded to the man's human side. It didnt work....or did it....

All I'm going to say that if Juuzou makes a face heel turn like I except him to, you can thank Genta.

He could have stopped Juzo at the beginning of the episode, when Juzo was unconscious. Later he said he hesitated not just because of Uramasa, but also because Juzo was hurt! What better time to attack? Seriously, how can any character be as pathetic as this?

[hide]The Shinkenger spoiler thread shows that Genta is missing from the shots of female!Red's posedown, so presumably at this point he has gone off with Takeru. Could it be that he is repaying Takeru for the Juzo thing? That would go some way to repairing his character but the damage is already done ...[/hide]

 

[Kenori]

I really love the bad guys in this series. Most series in the past have had more or less sympathetic and redeemable characters. Ren Jyuken, the Pollution Ministers. This time, with the exception of Juuzou and Dayuu, the Gedoushuu are just complete monsters. I love that there is just NO redeemable qualities about them. One of them WANTED TO SEE HELL for ****'s sake. They feel like a real threat this year...