Kamen Rider Wizard, Ep 8 - "A New Magic Stone"

[Wing Saber]

I'm guessing he must of killed a Gate at one point as well.

Which is why Wiseman has to keep Phoenix on a tight leash, to where he needs permission to do what he wants. The fact that he killed a Gate shows how dangerous he is.

 

[lazycoconut]

Ah, Phoenix, my lovable little psycho. How proud I was of you this week :anime:

Funny, I swear that Gentarou's parents died in a car crash as well? Or am I misremembering things? Anyway, did Haruto dye his hair, since his young self has very dark hair.

Yes, Gentaro's parents died in a car crash, it's a stock tragic backstory for heroes although in Gentaro's case it was only mentioned in passing and the show didn't bother to go into a flashback. Haruto's hair is obviously bleached/highlighted as an adult, he wouldn't have done that when he was a kid.

Did Medusa actually hint that Phoenix killed a gate before?

At one point Cait Sidhe asked why they didn't just kill the Gates and Phoenix was all "yeah, that's what I always say, why don't we -" and then changed his tune when Medusa gave him a dirty look. It seems that he has previously killed or tried to kill the Gates but was stopped by Medusa and/or Wiseman because the Gates are needed to create new Phantoms.

Which is why Wiseman has to keep Phoenix on a tight leash, to where he needs permission to do what he wants. The fact that he killed a gate shows how dangerous he is.

They're basically another pair like Mezul and Gamel: Medusa looks like a kid but is the mature and calculating one, Phoenix looks like an adult and has supernatural strength but has the mind of a child and almost no impulse control. That's why at the end of episode 7 he just starts screaming with rage because he doesn't know any other way to express himself.

Although since the creation of a Phantom kills the Gate anyway, Medusa is arguably as dangerous as Phoenix if not more so. I think that's going to come into play later on.

I also think his design doesn't make him into a typical MOTW, but he is almost akin to a dark and evil Kamen Rider or something.

If Wiseman is the White Wizard, he's an evil Kamen Rider, and Phoenix is his subordinate ...

I loved this episode. The tragic elements with Phoenix utterly beating the mother until she was unconscious and kicking the crap out of Wizard felt like a throwback to older Rider. Rider used to be more ballsy with its level of brutal violence and darker themes like the ones expressed towards the end of this episode.

Why does harsher/more graphic violence make the show better? :sweat:

 

[Galaxian]

I like how they increased the tension in the episode. Haruto looked very desperate when Phoenix was breaking through wall after wall.

 

[shadowrydera]

I don't enjoy the brutality against the Mom for it's own sake (and I hope that's not where some of you are coming from with it either)

Yeah I didn't mean it in that way. I was just stating that I enjoyed that the show wasn't afraid to throw a scene like that in there. It's scenes like that which are becoming less common in recent Rider/Sentai.

I definitely felt a strike of terror when I saw that. I for sure did not expect that to happen since the episode, and most the of the show for that matter, has been somewhat lighthearted and comedic. Not to the degree of Fourze obviously, the show that pukes comedy and lightheartedness.

 

[shadowrydera]

Why does harsher/more graphic violence make the show better? :sweat:

I never said that violence makes a show better. I only said that one element has been mostly absent from Kamen Rider recently. If anything, it's the sense of threat portrayed by the violence that made that scene better, not the violence itself.

I'm not one to say the show which has the highest body count and blood is the better show. For me, it's a mixture of the story-telling, action, and characters/character interactions.

 

[Wing Saber]

Yeah I didn't mean it in that way. I was just stating that I enjoyed that the show wasn't afraid to throw a scene like that in there. It's scenes like that which are becoming less common in recent Rider/Sentai.

I definitely felt a strike of terror when I saw that. I for sure did not expect that to happen since the episode, and most the of the show for that matter, has been somewhat lighthearted and comedic. Not to the degree of Fourze obviously, the show that pukes comedy and lightheartedness.

The idea behind Fourze being comedic was because of last year's tsunami. However I'm still surprised that they would have a sceen where Phoenix brutalized a mother just to get the kid to fall into despare. I too though that they would cut down stuff like that for today's Rider & Sentai.

 

[bleachjoj]

Yeah I think we all don't want to see a mother being beat up it was just a good way to show how much of a violent bastard Phoenix is. Then he stomps on her glasses. But let's remember Wiseman is the one who came up with the plan.

 

[lazycoconut]

I don't think the execution of it was that much "darker" than W showing domestic violence, Terror mutilating the mother of his children, Terui being set on fire, etc. But compared to most of Fourze, it seems harsher

The whole thing is also somewhat ironic given that Phoenix himself is pretty much a child

 

[bleachjoj]

The whole thing is also somewhat ironic given that Phoenix himself is pretty much a child

I disagree Phoenix is a child or that their relationship is like Gamul and Mezol. Mezol was Gamul's mother pretty much. Phoenix has shown to respect Medusa's power but he isn't reliant on her like Gamul was, when she said no he went to Wiseman and got him to approve. He comes off like a punk teenager to me. It actually seems more like a brother, sister vibe and Wiseman is the father figure.

 

[lazycoconut]

I disagree Phoenix is a child or that their relationship is like Gamul and Mezol. Mezol was Gamul's mother pretty much. Phoenix has shown to respect Medusa's power but he isn't reliant on her like Gamul was, when she said no he went to Wiseman and got him to approve. He comes off like a punk teenager to me. It actually seems more like a brother, sister vibe and Wiseman is the father figure.

In comparing them to Mezul and Gamel, I'm talking more about what character types they are (smart villainess who's an adult in a child's body; dumb muscle villain with super strength and a childish mind in an adult body) than their relationship with each other, which I agree is different. I'm with you on the teenager thing, but then stuff like his little breakdown at the end of episode 7 makes him seem a lot younger than that. I suppose it's partly explained by the fact that he's in an unfamiliar world, in a body he doesn't know how to use, pretending to be human when he's not, and he's obviously struggling with that while Medusa is able to deal with it and just focus on her mission