Kamen Rider Decade - Talk UP!

[Lynxara]

A thought.

31 established that there are two Tsukasas, one good and one probably some kind of evil dickhole.

How do we know there aren't two sets of "original" Heisei protagonists in play here? And our "good" Tsukasa is actually fighting the Rider War against evil copies of the Heisei guys we know and love.

That would explain why Wataru and Kenzaki get their for-reals actors back just in time to be written like completely different, more assholish people.

This also reconciles the ending with All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker-- for that adventure, good Tsukasa is clearly teaming up with the good versions of the Heisei dudes who don't want to kill him!

Finally, it would also explain Onodera still existing away by making him Godai's evil counterpart so evil he has a different actor! Even though Onodera is... well, still not terribly good at being evil if left to his own devices. I guess even across space and time, Godai doesn't change that much.

No guarantee (or even much proof) that this is what Toei is doing, of course. Current Rider writers will make a character act like a jerk for pretty much no reason at all. It is what crossed my mind after reading a bit of the "evil Tsukasa" discussion, though...

 

[NeonZ]

Wow, now here is a very good theory from RB

That theory seems to imply that the other Tsukasa is good, and that's obviously wrong just looking at the preview. He's the one randomly beating up Tsukasa while mocking him.

How do we know there aren't two sets of "original" Heisei protagonists in play here?

The Tsukasa that we know only is good because he lost his memories though.

An alternate Tsukasa who is evil would just need to never have lost his memories. That's probably why he'd consider the Tsukasa we know a "fake" one too, because he only became like that due to his amnesia.

The other Heisei Riders would need to be completely different people in order to be evil. Also, his Complete Form just shows Decade himself, he probably isn't working with the other Riders.

This also reconciles the ending with All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker-- for that adventure, good Tsukasa is clearly teaming up with the good versions of the Heisei dudes who don't want to kill him!

"Good" Tsukasa attempts to conquer every world by leading Daishocker, before he is kicked out by Shadowmoon and his sister in that movie. If he can redeem from that, the other Heisei Riders can be excused for following some plan that seems to have been made by Alternative (sacrifice an innocent to save the worl- to save every world).

 

[Reimon]

Wow, anyone noticed that Gackt was never part of the series only in the movie¿

 

[Lynxara]

The Tsukasa that we know only is good because he lost his memories though.

Well, if we're dealing with some sort of absolute cosmic duality here, clearly he lost his memories because that had to happen to make him good!

(And not because amnesia is a really handy plot device...)

The other Heisei Riders would need to be completely different people in order to be evil.

Well, Wataru and Kenzaki in 31 don't act anything like the same characters did in their own shows. I'm sure the actual reason for this is "The writers didn't care that much!" but it's very jarring given that it's the same actors.

It would be fun if there was more to it! Though there's no guarantee there will be.

If he can redeem from that, the other Heisei Riders can be excused for following some plan that seems to have been made by Alternative (sacrifice an innocent to save the worl- to save every world).

It's pretty in-character for Tsukasa to try out leading Daishocker, decide he doesn't like it, and then go about destroying Daishocker. It perfectly parallels how he behaved in the Nega World arc-- that's just who Tsukasa is.

The problem with the other Heisei protagonists is that their current behavior is, generally speaking, not how they rolled. In fact it just makes no sense if you know these guys from their original shows. (I'm sure that's why it's supposed to be terribly shocking.)

Behavior that doesn't make sense is hard to "excuse" for moral reasons because you could have the Riders doing the same things in a way that did make sense. I can believe Wataru and Kenzaki could feel like they had to sacrifice some innocents for a greater good.

But they wouldn't wander around being stylish jerks about it-- they'd be very conflicted about having to make such a horrible choice. Kenzaki would probably be outright apologetic about it, poor guy.

 

[Nana]

Am I the only one who's not that worried about this fake ending since Double is coming out in 6 days?

 

[Blade Dancer]

Nope. I'm perfectly content to wait until subs come out for the December movie to find out what happened. But then, I grew up on Star Trek TNG, which just about always had a horrible cliffhanger between seasons.

 

[Reimon]

Is it Den-O himself fighting as Den-O to fight Decade in the Rider War or Momotaros as Den-O fighting Decade¿

 

[MattComix]

Am I the only one who's not that worried about this fake ending since Double is coming out in 6 days?

What we're supposed to just stop caring or talking about that the previous show because the hot shiny new toy is out? Come on.

There are plenty of people looking forward to Double that doesn't mean we should suddenly be " A show where a private eye in a sweet hat fusion-ha's with a J-model wearing a denim dress to make a cool looking Rider! This magically makes me forget all my problems with how the big crossover Rider celebration show I've been watching the past 31 weeks answered nothing! "

Seriously though. Double might turn out to be a cool show but Decade was a pretty big deal and because it's such a big deal people were hopeful they wouldn't get yet another one of those Heisei ambiguous Rider non-endings.

To some extent, Decade has managed to do even worse than that *but* if the kind of answers and closure really are provided by any upcoming movie then it could redeem the whole thing.

I know the idea on Toei's part is to keep the excitement going and I while I understand all that I don't think any of us are incorrect for feeling frustrated and strung along. On either coast.

We'll just have to see.

 

[Nana]

I'm not saying that you guys should just drop it. I'm just mad that the series turned out like this. The **** pretty much fell apart after Hibiki's world. "Well, we finished going through the 9 worlds. What the **** are we gonna do now? We're gonna hire a writer who can handle this! Toshiki Inoue!" At that point I was done with this series. Then Amazon came out of freaking nowhere (I really thought that was a bad rumor.) Then we get this ending. I haven't seen an ending that shat on my perception of an entire series since Ryuki.

At this point I'm just gonna put this bad experiment out of my head and move on.

 

[Lynxara]

At this point I'm just gonna put this bad experiment out of my head and move on.

I would agree that at this point W has way more potential to be a good watch than the rest of Decade does. Decade is pretty clearly a show where Toei put fanservice even farther ahead of storytelling then usual.

Still, Decade didn't really start losing me until episode 30 and a lot of people were really into it right up until 31's last eyecatch. Of course people feel a need to discuss it-- they got left hanging and the good vibes haven't evaporated yet.

There's nothing to do with Decade but discuss what we've got now until subs of the movies hit, which will be quite awhile. When it's time to discuss W, we'll probably move over to that thread and start doing that instead.