I like Kamen Rider Kiva, But....

[Pixelphile]

I know that Decade was your very first Rider series in the Heisei era.

But Son, NOW YOU'RE JUST PUSHING IT :shakefist (on behalf of the W fans LOL)

LOL!

Nah, I don't mean to slight the other seasons, seriously. I mean, I wouldn't go through them if I didn't find them so darned interesting. I love the messages behind each one and I love their myriad lessons in storytelling, and ways of telling stories that I'd never even fathomed before until now. Even the ones I don't take a shine to and constantly bitch about, I find myself captivated by them, y'know?* (I swear to God, I want to like Blade so bad, it's so cool even though I don't understand a bit of it...)

In the end, everyone's just got their personal signature toku, the one that rings truer to them than any other, and sticks in their heart forever. (And yeah, for me that's Decade--technically my second series. First was Kuuga, but I got tired of waiting 10 years for subs of the other 40+ eps. ^^)

But back on topic--I sometimes like to look at shows like these from a detatched point of view. My friends and I like to introduce folks to toku whenever we can, and we've slowly been building a list of series to help "sell" the concept. As far as Rider stuff goes, Decade, W, Kabuto and Den-O tend to end up in that rotation, depending on what type of stuff we know they like. They're just so much more easier for newcomers to digest (IMO) y'know? Then once they're hooked, they'll be more inclined to get really deep into the other shows.

*For some reason, this never applies when I come across a bad sentai show. Odd, that.

 

[big_j_ny]

But we're not 5 years old anymore. We do come into these shows expecting quality, unless you're a die-hard fanboy who doesn't give a damn about anything as long as the show exists at all. Or if you just write off everything as just "kids' show material".

My response to your comment is basically parallel to my response to your other comment that I missed from your previous post.

Not that I don't get where you're coming from (and I sort of share your cynicism) but that's using a rather broad brush, wouldn't you say? By that reasoning I watched my first Metal Hero only for the shiny costumes and explosions. (Come to think of it, I can't even remember what my first Metal Hero was. But I do know Metalder was the first I finished.)

I missed this part of your post Fang, and I should have added it in my previous post commented on your response.......so I'll add it here.

Yes, it is a rather broad brush. But if there was a specific, truthful reason as to why people would be attracted to a franchise based on the "first show they watched," the truthful reason is based on personal taste. For instance, you probably were attracted to your first Metal Heroes because of the storyline execution or what not. But can you say the same reason for the Tom, Dick, Larry, and Rob of the newbies that enter the Metal Heroes franchise for the first time? With that being said, that reasoning is great when judging each newbie of the fandom on an individual-by-individual basis.

I was basically stating my point of views on how I feel about the MAJORITY of the people that enter into a toku franchise, and even you yourself believe deep down inside that it is also true.

The truth of the matter is Black Fang, you speak from the POV of how the fandom wants the newbie to view the toku franchise that they so love and adore. But I speak from the perspective of the newbie himself, the newbie has a brain of his own and couldn't really give a damn about the POV of an experienced member of the fandom until after they've seen like the first 5-15 episodes of the first series they've watched of the toku franchise.

There will always be conflicts between the experienced people of the fandom and the newbies entering it, and that is how we ended up with all the Den-O fanboys entering into the Kamen Rider franchise.......that's plain ass reality.

 

[Red Tyranno Ranger]

But we're not 5 years old anymore. We do come into these shows expecting quality, unless you're a die-hard fanboy who doesn't give a damn about anything as long as the show exists at all. Or if you just write off everything as just "kids' show material".

...but it is a Kid's show and you can only expect so much quality from a kids show.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Lynxara]

But we're not 5 years old anymore.

We're not, but... to be honest, when I'm watching tokusatsu that's not obviously adult-oriented, like GARO or Daimajin Kanon, I bring my inner five-year-old with me. I want that part of me to be entertained. I feel like the show is failing on some level if it does not make my inner child happy.

A good kids' show can do that, then entertain other parts of my psyche on other levels. The adult in me can see some relevance in the story, the writer in me can enjoy some clever ideas and cool dialog, my girly side can swoon to a handsome male lead or an identifiable heroine, my angry side can enjoy the power fantasy and the fights for their own sake.

Other forms of entertainment will appeal to me on different levels. Gundam brings out my inner teenager. When I want to engage with entertainment as a sophisticated adult, I go read non-fiction books or watch a dense and artistic film. I don't expect Toei's Sunday morning shows to satisfy me on those levels. They're simply not intended for that.

I think as audience we must accept, at some point, that we cannot expect any one genre, franchise, or medium to serve our entire entertainment needs as adults. Just as the healthiest food diet is varied, the most satisfying diet of art and entertainment is full of works for different audiences, executed in different mediums and styles.

In light of this, I see no reason for Toei's Sunday morning tokusatsu to acknowledge viewers who are not five-year-olds or watching in the spirit of five-year-olds. The shows are made for the young and young at heart. Other tokusatsu will attempt to engage with viewers on more adult or adolescent levels, and those shows are more appropriate for scratching the itch of a fan who wants something more sophisticated.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

No, not Kabuto. The whole idea is to introduce a new fan using the best entries to the franchise. Kabuto doesn't even reach "average"

Kabuto has a strong start, interesting characters, neat costumes, and awesome fights. Plot's crap, but it's plenty to get someone interested.

But we're not 5 years old anymore. We do come into these shows expecting quality, unless you're a die-hard fanboy who doesn't give a damn about anything as long as the show exists at all. Or if you just write off everything as just "kids' show material".

Ehhh. That's not really true. I watch toku for more than a story--in fact, honestly I go elsewhere for story. Generally, more often than not, I watch for the last two things I mentioned Kabuto had: costumes, weapons (adding one), and fights. IF I get a Kuuga, or an Agito, or a W, then great. If not? The other things better be solid.

In fact, in Sentai, I only care about the plot to the extent that it adheres to internal logic and I can follow it. Far more interesting is how well it can give me a variation of the heroic spirit story. (That's actually my measuring stick--thus anti-heroes are automatically failures to me.)

 

[Fantasy Leader]

I personally think kid's shows make more sense than adult shows.

 

[rtys]

For someone looking to get into Kamen Rider, would you recommend Kiva as a starter series?

No.The battles sucked.Then the storyline failed.It's not great place to start off Kamen Rider from.

I mean,it failed from the very start the moment the "SuperHero" wasn't Super. So it automatically has failed at what it should be.
The worst Kamen Rider series IMO.Decade wasn't so bad at least,but it was still not good.

The truth of the matter is Black Fang, you speak from the POV of how the fandom wants the newbie to view the toku franchise that they so love and adore. But I speak from the perspective of the newbie himself, the newbie has a brain of his own and couldn't really give a damn about the POV of an experienced member of the fandom until after they've seen like the first 5-15 episodes of the first series they've watched of the toku franchise.

There will always be conflicts between the experienced people of the fandom and the newbies entering it, and that is how we ended up with all the Den-O fanboys entering into the Kamen Rider franchise.......that's plain ass reality.

Truthfully,if the guy couldn't fit in the fandom, he/she should just stay true to how he/she feels and not be deterred by any other external influences.

Things don't always work the same way for everyone..

 

[garfield15]

Kabuto has a strong start, interesting characters, neat costumes, and awesome fights. Plot's crap, but it's plenty to get someone interested.

Kabuto got me into KR so I'm living proof right here.

True, later I realized the plot was crap, but you know...

 

[-See Zack-]

heh, for me i got into kr when i started watching decade.he was such an jerk with the the power of all the other 9 rider:redface2: . i dun see why ppl hate it
but hey, different ppl have different opinion so yea...

as for kiva, i jus started watching it..
the starting its kinda suckish.. i mean the main lead being a emo kid ._.
but slowly he changes and etc.. etc.. etc..
the series is growing on me, so i dun see any problem with it yet