Den-O: Why the criticism?

[DeMize]

it was and it is a kamen rider, just without badass main character, and a time traveling train. and is your opinion, but the suits in den-o are awesome IMO. and Cho Climax form is amazing IMO

not to be rude or anything... i know a lot of people find den-o's suit awesome.. but i simply hated it.. esp climax form.. it looked like toy that got lost in a toy assembly line. too many colors at the same time make him look more sentaish..

and yeah, i agree with fang, the sword/axe front back thing is kinda unnerving.

also one more thing that kinda put me off den-o, den-o wasnt ryoutarou, it was the taros, ryoutarou was simply a vessel for THEM to become den-o and THEY fought the imajin. true, liner form became ryoutarou fighting on his own. but basically it was not him who did the action.. he just went along with the ride. it mightve been more accurate to name the taros as Den-O.

heck, even den-o's official image is sword form, which is momo in ryoutarou's body. momo doing the fighting, momo beating the monster, and ryou getting all the bruises

 

[Kamen_Sentai]

don't worry, I don't see how you are being rude, you are just expressing your opinion on Den-O, and your view points on Den-O, unlike you I don't see it like that.

 

[DeMize]

don't worry, I don't see how you are being rude, you are just expressing your opinion on Den-O, and your view points on Den-O, unlike you I don't see it like that.

thanks, ill admit though. i thought liner form looked decent. 2 -3 colors that match. that was ok, red/black/silver always worked together (kabuto/kiva/agito shining to name a few) but climax form not so.. it was in my opinion more of a van gogh painting come to life. too sentaish.. it wouldve been ok if the 3 color motif was retained

 

[Kamen_Sentai]

thanks, ill admit though. i thought liner form looked decent. 2 -3 colors that match. that was ok, red/black/silver always worked together (kabuto/kiva/agito shining to name a few) but climax form not so.. it was in my opinion more of a van gogh painting come to life. too sentaish.. it wouldve been ok if the 3 color motif was retained

no problem. how can I be mad or find it rude?
Van Gogh was a great artist, just to throw that out there, I'm really into painting and art...I don't think it changes everything.

yeah Silver and red with some black are some nice color variations. but climax form was all they got, climax form was red, black and orange with some black, but the ther colors where yellow, blue and purple who represented the other imagin.

 

[musashi03]

thanks, ill admit though. i thought liner form looked decent. 2 -3 colors that match. that was ok, red/black/silver always worked together (kabuto/kiva/agito shining to name a few) but climax form not so.. it was in my opinion more of a van gogh painting come to life. too sentaish.. it wouldve been ok if the 3 color motif was retained

Yeah, I initially didn't like how Climax Form looked like, although it slowly grew on me since I liked how he looked in Punch mode or Kick mode. Then Cho-Climax Form really hit the spot because Sieg was in it, since I love Sieg and the Wing Form.

all riders have some bike action....but kuuga is the only one that does it right. kudos to kuuga. there are 2 episodes in Den-O where it has awesome bike scenes, but not as good as kuuga. and Kiva only had 2 bike scenes.

That's why I kept saying that Kuuga is the most faithful in the Kamen Rider franchise by simply sticking to his emblem the "Kamen Rider" by being a masked vigilante extensively utilizing bikes. Whereas recent shows just used the name "Kamen Rider" to take advantage of the foundation in order to sell stuff.

I think this will explain it better:

Den-O is something that would have been better off allowed to be it's own thing rather than being passed off as a Kamen Rider show. Because it's just so aggressively and obnoxiously wacky as well as gimmicked in a way that doesn't really jibe at all with Kamen Rider.

I hope you get it this time.

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yes, Den-O became a cash cow, but who can blame Toei for keep using it? if I'm the CEO of the company and see that this show is getting me tons of money then I will over use it. and it really does not bother me if it was milked.

And that is why loyal fans who can think outside of the box has the ability to observe that Toei is pretty much taking advantage of this, yeah Toei needs to sell, but it is just disgusting at some point to see something you love be brought to that kind of level, hence leaving a bad taste to most fans. Again, "too much is something that is bad enough".

I know what you mean, this is when I started thinking of the time traveling thing, maybe the belt was created by the Momotachi in the future, also the armor was created by them in the future knowing that Ryotaro was going to be the wearer of the belt. then they gave the belt to the Owner, the belt went back in time to when everything started, this is how the belt had the 4 buttons and the armor was made like that. of course that's my theory, and it has never been explained before. so I will stick to it till they explain it.

Yeah this show can always take the excuse of being "time-traveling"-driven to escape the most logical of plot holes, but you see, even if you can say that the belt was created by the Taros in the future that's why it looked destined to be used by Ryo with 4 different Imagins, there is a necessity to show that when Ryo received the belt, he should have been told that it came from the future and was his destiny by the Taros or at least it should have been showed since they had so much movies and even a mini-Anime for the origin of the belt to have been properly explained that it came from the future if you're going to tell me that they didn't tell Ryo in order not to disrupt the space-time continuum. It's like Hyper Kabuto who saved Kagami and Tendou's asses multiple times since it was the future Tendou who came back to save them, in the end it was explained that it was future Tendou who kept coming back in time, and so was in the movie God Speed Love when it was shown that alternate future Tendou gave the belt to series young Tendou.

It's just a necessity to explain the origin of things even when the story is about different time and different dimensions, else it will just end up as a plot-hole. Its like Toei expects us just to take-in everything they say without questioning its possibility and logic while knowing the fact that adults watch the show and hiding it also in the excuse that it's a kid's show.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kamen_Sentai]

I hope you get it this time.



Yeah this show can always take the excuse of being "time-traveling"-driven to escape the most logical of plot holes, but you see, even if you can say that the belt was created by the Taros in the future that's why it looked destined to be used by Ryo with 4 different Imagins, there is a necessity to show that when Ryo received the belt, he should have been told that it came from the future and was his destiny by the Taros or at least it should have been showed since they had so much movies and even a mini-Anime for the origin of the belt to have been properly explained that it came from the future if you're going to tell me that they didn't tell Ryo in order not to disrupt the space-time continuum. It's like Hyper Kabuto who saved Kagami and Tendou's asses multiple times since it was the future Tendou who came back to save them, in the end it was explained that it was future Tendou who kept coming back in time, and so was in the movie God Speed Love when it was shown that alternate future Tendou gave the belt to series young Tendou.

the taros din't tell him because they din't know, they probably died in the future, they died after creating the belt. this is why they never told him.

get what? that fans don't take Den-O seriously and would have been better without being a Kamen Rider? I know what it meant before, but I don't see it, just because is not like the first kamen rider and its a new concept does not mean its not kamen rider. of course this is my opinion and my point of view and how I see it. but Den-O would have been awesome anyways...with or without the name.

 

[musashi03]

the taros din't tell him because they din't know, they probably died in the future, they died after creating the belt. this is why they never told him.

Then how were they able to get hold of the belt if they didn't know and they were dead in the future? See, no explanation whatsoever. Just another plot-hole.

get what? that fans don't take Den-O seriously and would have been better without being a Kamen Rider? I know what it meant before, but I don't see it, just because is not like the first kamen rider and its a new concept does not mean its not kamen rider. of course this is my opinion and my point of view and how I see it. but Den-O would have been awesome anyways...with or without the name.

You don't get that "Kamen Rider" is about masked vigilantes riding badass bikes.

:castlerock:

-- Not trains, else he'd be synonymous with "Kamen-Passenger".

 

[Kamen_Sentai]

Then how were they able to get hold of the belt if they didn't know and they were dead in the future? See, no explanation whatsoever. Just another plot-hole.



You don't get that "Kamen Rider" is about masked vigilantes riding badass bikes.

:castlerock:

-- Not trains, else he'd be synonymous with "Kamen-Passenger".

you are looking for plotholes. I can easily explain that. with the power of IMAGINATION

they created the belt for Ryotaro. before the future got deleted and they where going to die, they gave the belt to the owner.

how did they know Ryotaro? because he was Den-O in another time frame.

I rather make up excuses than having random plot holes that will bother me. just to avoid the feeling of hatred or start arguments with other fans. its an example, I'm not saying that anyone have done it. but I don't wanna do that in the future.

every rider I seen is a vigilante. and all of them "ride" a motorcycle, even if some almost never use the darn bike. Den-O rode a Train.

by the way, I do get it. its simple. but I won't diss on a show because there is not motorcycle action. I don't think it will hinder my sleep and stop me from liking the show more. or less. but its my opinion and my point of view again.

 

[MattComix]

I stand by my post and the idea is not to say that every KR series has to conform to what the first series did but there is a point where you're just slapping the brand name and maybe a couple of elements onto something that really is just not a Kamen Rider show idea at all. It's just using the brand and on a very basic level that's what bothers Rider fans about Den-O. The feeling that Bandai/Toei will just stamp that name on anything that comes across their desk with no thought or consideration whatsoever.

Whereas if Den-O were it's own thing and not part of Rider then I think many Rider fans would be a little more open to it because it wouldn't be something wearing the Kamen Rider name as a baseball cap.

 

[ClimaxHeroDen-O]

not to be rude or anything... i know a lot of people find den-o's suit awesome.. but i simply hated it.. esp climax form.. it looked like toy that got lost in a toy assembly line. too many colors at the same time make him look more sentaish..

and yeah, i agree with fang, the sword/axe front back thing is kinda unnerving.

also one more thing that kinda put me off den-o, den-o wasnt ryoutarou, it was the taros, ryoutarou was simply a vessel for THEM to become den-o and THEY fought the imajin. true, liner form became ryoutarou fighting on his own. but basically it was not him who did the action.. he just went along with the ride. it mightve been more accurate to name the taros as Den-O.

heck, even den-o's official image is sword form, which is momo in ryoutarou's body. momo doing the fighting, momo beating the monster, and ryou getting all the bruises

well, it was Ryotaro who chose to be Den-O, throughtout the series it was mostly his body, but he only let the Taros help him fight, as evidenced by the times he kept Momo out of his body. he was the rider, the Taros just helped. there was no doubt that he was the main character. if he opposed something one of the Taros was doing with his body when conscious, he'd make them stop. in the early part of the story, the Taros helped him fight competently, until they eventually taught him to fight on his own, not to mention that Plat Form didn't enhance him in any way