I liked him when he wasn't a god
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Specter deserved to get his ass kicked.

I'm pretty depressed about Ghost overall :/ People are saying that it's supposed to to be a kids show filled with messages, and I'm actually okay with that. Ghost was at it's best when Takeru was growing and having characters of the day with messages. We already had two Kamen Riders that had a continuous storyline..... But then Grateful happened... Mind you, the show didn't piss me off until it was apparent that the show kept using Ganmizers. The ending actually would've been cool, had it not been for the show's issues beforehand.

If there's one character I would rather concentrate all my hatred to, it would be Makoto. Worst. Secondary. Rider. Ever. Seriously, the show can't decide what to do with this tw**.

The scene, though, was designed to establish Genm as a dangerous threat. It wasn't to vindicate fanboys going "ha ha, this proves Ghost's riders totally suck and Ex-Aid's are so much better!!!!!!111" (Not aimed at anyone on this board.)

IMO being, for instance, a serial killer (Ouja) or a self-righteous hypocrite (Nago) or, well, Kaixa is more deserving of "Getting his ass kicked" than a Rider that's simply underdeveloped, but you're entitled to your opinion.

I personally think Ghost had a lot of good messages and that they were preferable to some of the messages in other recent shows. But I agree with the criticism I've seen of the episode where Takeru declares there are no parents who don't love their children; or the ideal that Adel must be good basically because he was related to Alan. In that respect, I think Drive did better with the moral of the Banno arc: "it's not OK for family to treat you terribly, and if they do, you can still be happy and find family with other people."
 
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Why am I not surprised that Drive and Gaim are so high on your list? Most of the harshest criticism from Ghost seems to come from fans of those shows. Some of it is to do with petty "rivalry" between shows but generally, Ghost is a break from the last two years' trend of deliberately courting an older audience (that looks set to continue with Ex-Aid) and I suspect a lot of people don't welcome that. No matter how much some may try to deny that they expect Kamen Rider to be for adults, or dress it up with "Good media for children SHOULD appeal to adults!" - yeah, you're not fooling anyone.

I put most of my thoughts in the ep 48 thread so I'll sum them up:

Good: It's very gentle, with some very good messages for children. Love the suits and aesthetic of the show and a lot of the concepts. Also interesting in that it explores spiritual themes that aren't addressed in a lot of other Kamen Rider, and explores death in more depth than any other Heisei series. I much prefer this style of Kamen Rider than one that's trying too hard to be like a J-drama. Akari was a refreshing change from several years of female leads who primarily served as love interests and/or emotional support. Found the actors of Alan and Onari very good.

Bad: Lots of apathy from the production side: notably the long absence of the head writer and cutting its budget to fund Amazons. This, as we see, had a very detrimental effect on the show. Also felt that the more talented members of the cast were often wasted, and many characters were so under-used (Javert, Gyro, Kanon) they probably should have been cut. I don't believe that the show is "unrealistic" or "too optimistic" but have seen some criticism of Takeru saying that all parents love their children (in contrast to Drive's Banno arc); think a more general moral about how family are the people that love us would have been a better one.

I find Fourze a good comparison here - it was written by three people, all of whom had different takes on the characters. Nakashima gave Gentaro slightly more depth, and made Yuuki intelligent as well as perky; she was able to serve as a bridge between Gentaro and Kengo. Sanjo tended to write the characters as more cartoonish and more like caricatures, as well as introducing random subplots that went nowhere since none of the other two writers picked them up (e.g. his attempt to set up a Gentaro/Miu/Shun love triangle.) Hasegawa was somewhere in between. Now imagine if Nakashima had vanished for half the show, left the other two to write the rest with varying levels of consistency between it, and then had to come back and make an attempt to somehow tie it all together. All the while the show is running on a reduced budget because most of the money was channeled into funding a show to pander to an outside demographic. And before anyone comes in with "well, that's a GOOD use of money, Amazons was so much better!!!" - Of course the show that has comparatively more attention and money invested into it is gonna look better.

I can agree with this notion and concept but if Wizard compared to Ghost. Wizard was GOAT if compared to Ghost. smh Fourze, Wizard, OOOs, Gaim and Drive were all better than Ghost sadly i loved the concept i don't blame the actors they did what they were given it was the story execution that flopped when looking at it you had a good story just kep protruding with saving people that didn't add to the narrative and the ones that did were like three people wtf smh.

I liked Ghost on and off as the story wasn't a complete hook but it needs to be to sustain viewership etc. Overall the series felt and got to be a chore to watch at some points smh and the villian Allain brother was setting up to be a great villian and poof steam was let out of it smh that episode shoulda been the finale which the finale felt like it was 4 episodes long and how the **** did he still have his powers if he came back alive smh i dunno anymore.
 
I liked him when he wasn't a god
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I can agree with this notion and concept but if Wizard compared to Ghost. Wizard was GOAT if compared to Ghost.

Why are we taking Wizard as a specific example? What are we comparing other than "they're both shows most of the fanbase hates?"

how the **** did he still have his powers if he came back alive smh i dunno anymore.

I don't think his powers were contingent on his being a ghost? He didn't need to be one to use the Eyecon and belt (any more than Specter did.)

I just think it's a bit ridiculous the way some people (again, I'm not talking about anyone on this site) talk like Ghost is somehow a huge insult to them just for existing and pour ridiculous amounts of vitriol on what is, ultimately, a TV show aimed at young children. Fans, especially those outside Japan and other countries where the show is sold, don't have any say in the franchise nor a right to demand that it cater to them. constant "Ghost suxxxxxx!" is no better than the people throwing childish tantrums over My Little Pony or Steven Universe.

It's probably worse, even, since most English-speaking viewers don't speak Japanese and miss really basic stuff about the shows due to a lack of cultural/social context about Japan. E.g. many of Ghost's messages are based in Buddhist concepts or Japanese cultural values, but I've seen several people around that think the show is just about some vague ideal of positivity and it's basically an inferior Fourze. Or to take another example, a lot of English-speaking fans did not catch Gaim's very obvious use of the four main Riders as allegories for modern Japan (Kouta/Gaim), historic Japan (Takatora/Zangetsu), China (Ryugen/Micchy) and America/the west (Kaito) so they missed out on some of the most important aspects of the story. It's a little easier if you're from an East or South-East Asian background with cultural similarities to Japan but, yeah, 99% of us aren't Japanese and we're oblivious to the context of the shows. Making blanket statements and judgements about something we know nothing about is a bit insulting, IMO (and I'm not gonna deny I've done it myself, a lot of times.)

I'm not saying that anyone "has" to like anything or isn't entitled to their opinion. (Although, in life generally, I wish people wouldn't use "opinion" as the catch-all excuse for being a jerk.) I do think that ultimately, Kamen Rider is just a TV series and a lot of the response I'm seeing to Ghost is hugely disproportionate. "I didn't enjoy Ghost" or "I found it disappointing" is one thing. "IT SUCKS, thanK GOD it's finally over, I want Genm to kill all the Riders, it's an insult to the franchise!!!" is another.
 
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! SUBARASHI!!!!
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It's probably worse, even, since most English-speaking viewers don't speak Japanese and miss really basic stuff about the shows due to a lack of cultural/social context about Japan. E.g. many of Ghost's messages are based in Buddhist concepts or Japanese cultural values, but I've seen several people around that think the show is just about some vague ideal of positivity and it's basically an inferior Fourze. Or to take another example, a lot of English-speaking fans did not catch Gaim's very obvious use of the four main Riders as allegories for modern Japan (Kouta/Gaim), historic Japan (Takatora/Zangetsu), China (Ryugen/Micchy) and America/the west (Kaito) so they missed out on some of the most important aspects of the story. It's a little easier if you're from an East or South-East Asian background with cultural similarities to Japan but, yeah, 99% of us aren't Japanese and we're oblivious to the context of the shows. Making blanket statements and judgements about something we know nothing about is a bit insulting, IMO (and I'm not gonna deny I've done it myself, a lot of times.)

Don't think it was about cultural differences though. The messages were fine in itself, but the delivery was terrible in that it wasn't convincing and characters get 'enlightened' way too quickly and abnormally.
 
I liked him when he wasn't a god
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Don't think it was about cultural differences though. The messages were fine in itself, but the delivery was terrible in that it wasn't convincing and characters get 'enlightened' way too quickly and abnormally.

Yeah, that's a fair criticism - Javert, for instance. I'm talking about stuff like when I see people that think that Ghost was intending to be generically "positive" like Fourze, which isn't true. (Whether or not it achieved its goals successfully is another matter.) Or people that complain of Takeru being "boring" or "weak" because he's always loving, forgiving and doesn't get angry. Well, you can find that boring if you like, but at least acknowledge why he's written that way - because it's considered a virtue in Buddhism. It's not baseless.
 
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The scene, though, was designed to establish Genm as a dangerous threat. It wasn't to vindicate fanboys going "ha ha, this proves Ghost's riders totally suck and Ex-Aid's are so much better!!!!!!111" (Not aimed at anyone on this board.)

IMO being, for instance, a serial killer (Ouja) or a self-righteous hypocrite (Nago) or, well, Kaixa is more deserving of "Getting his ass kicked" than a Rider that's simply underdeveloped, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Every time they do these early bird cameos, either KR or Sentai, they have to make the characters for next season look good. Genm beating Makoto & Alain shows that he means business, to where he's going to give Ex-Aid a run for his money.
 
Now, count up your crimes!
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One thing in the last episode that's left hanging is
the implication that Ayumu is Takeru's son, as well as the question of why he came from Ganma World, how he acquired a Gasshat, how he knew of the existence of Ex-Aid and Genm ... etc. Maybe that will be the plot of Movie Wars although I hope not. We've already done the whole "future child" thing with Drive (Surprise Future wasn't even that successful a movie!) and the new Movie Wars will probably focus more on Ex-Aid since he's the current Rider, so any Takeru-related plot is likely to be sidelined.

Although, this episode was directed by the director of Movie Wars Genesis and the Rider-1 movie. It's likely he will also do the next Movie Wars, so it's possible that IS the plot ...

Well Kiva did the whole future descendant from the future after Den-O did it with Farewell which makes it soooo out of place with the rest of the series.

I'll say though. I'll take Alain's redemption over their pathetic excuse at redeeming Medic in Drive. Their excuse made her seem too much of a Mary Sue. "She was originally pure." Bull ****ing ****.
 
I liked him when he wasn't a god
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Well Kiva did the whole future descendant from the future after Den-O did it with Farewell which makes it soooo out of place with the rest of the series.

Yeah, but at least they came up with a different reason and premise for it (and Den-O at least was based around time travel.) This, however, is basically the exact same setup as Surprise Future, AND Movie Wars Genesis (Takeru going back in time to see his own father.) I can't think of anything that a future movie or special could do with Ayumu that wouldn't just be a repeat of those movies or the final episode - since we've already seen Takeru have a heart to heart with him and inspire him to have hope. Reportedly, the story for the final Ghost stage show will focus on Ayumu ... let's all pray they leave it there and we don't have to go through it all again

I'll say though. I'll take Alain's redemption over their pathetic excuse at redeeming Medic in Drive. Their excuse made her seem too much of a Mary Sue. "She was originally pure." Bull ****ing ****.

It's really common for villainesses to get awful, contrived redemptions though; a lot of creators seem very reluctant to include genuinely evil or irredeemable female characters (especially if they are played by a beautiful idol.) That's one reason why I like Redyue so much
 
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