Kamen Rider Ghost - Episode 48: "Assemble! The Cycle of Sorrow!"

[DaikaijuSokogeki!]

I don't think zany is the issue (then again, I loved Den-O and Fourze). I think it's just bad writing and directing, plain and simple.

 

[Black Fang]

I'd say the zaniness is part of the bad writing. It's part in parcel with the script and the directing.

Fourze is a good example of wacky hijinks dampening what's otherwise a rather unsettling premise for a story. The nature of what the Horoscopes and Gamou are and what that means for the school don't have the impact they should when most of the time is dedicated to the KR Club being stupid, especially later on when Yuki's and even Gentaro's craziness is dialed up. (And I don't say this as a Fourze hater: I just think most of these shows had the chance to be so much better than they were with the material they had.)

 

[KamenRiderUNDERGROUND]

I personally think Ghost is even worse than Wizard. Wizard's problem was having random fillers going nowhere in the middle of the series, but towards the end when the Mages started to appear as when as Fueki's actor debuted, things actually picked up and there was a decent end to the show. Ghost however, has literally gone nowhere since the mid 20's, and the wrap up of the series is just as terrible.

 

[RougeRider03]

I personally think Ghost is even worse than Wizard. Wizard's problem was having random fillers going nowhere in the middle of the series, but towards the end when the Mages started to appear as when as Fueki's actor debuted, things actually picked up and there was a decent end to the show. Ghost however, has literally gone nowhere since the mid 20's, and the wrap up of the series is just as terrible.

My main problem with Wizard is how nothing is really explained at the end. Fueki says that he created a Phantom, but doesn't explain how he learned what a Phantom is. An issue that could have been resolved if they wrote Fueki and Carbuncle as two different characters instead of trying to pull the rug out from everyone.
And Ghost did have problems with later episodes, 31 is where it seems to decline, and don't get me started on 33.

 

[KamenRiderUNDERGROUND]

My main problem with Wizard is how nothing is really explained at the end. Fueki says that he created a Phantom, but doesn't explain how he learned what a Phantom is. An issue that could have been resolved if they wrote Fueki and Carbuncle as two different characters instead of trying to pull the rug out from everyone.
And Ghost did have problems with later episodes, 31 is where it seems to decline, and don't get me started on 33.

The fact I can't even remember what happens in a specific episode in Ghost shows how generic one episode gets when it comes to plot and fights. And to be honest, up to this point, not much is explained in Ghost as well: what actually is the Great Eye, how did they find out such stuff in the first place, where does the Ghost Driver comes from etc etc.

 

[lazycoconut]

I think a lot of the whole "it's so bad!!!! worst series EVER!!!!!" is vastly exaggerated and much of it is down to personal taste - most of the harshest criticism seems to come from fans of Gaim and Drive, both of which were written more like J-dramas and designed to appeal to a periphery demographic more than other recent Rider series did. (If that's what you expect in a Kamen Rider you probably won't enjoy a series with Ghost's tone, and vice versa.) But Ghost does have a lot of problems with pacing and inconsistency. The head writer working on less than half the episodes and writing NONE of the episodes that aired between April and August certainly didn't help. I don't know what happened - backstage drama? Illness? Just wasn't able to write a year-long show? (I know that for some of that time he was working on the movie; but most head writers do the movie yet continue to work on the series.) Toei needs to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Most of the series has been written by two sub-writers and Fukuda then had to come back and tie up what they'd established, some of which is conflicting. I think it could have been a better show had he been there the whole time; the first arc was much stronger and the summer movie, also written by Fukuda, performed well. Plus the show had its budget cut to finance Amazons (and a substantial amount of the remaining budget went to the Rider-1 movie), I doubt that helped either

 

[DaikaijuSokogeki!]

I think a lot of the whole "it's so bad!!!! worst series EVER!!!!!" is vastly exaggerated and much of it is down to personal taste - most of the harshest criticism seems to come from fans of Gaim and Drive, both of which were written more like J-dramas and designed to appeal to a periphery demographic more than other recent Rider series did. (If that's what you expect in a Kamen Rider you probably won't enjoy a series with Ghost's tone, and vice versa.) But Ghost does have a lot of problems with pacing and inconsistency. The head writer working on less than half the episodes and writing NONE of the episodes that aired between April and August certainly didn't help. I don't know what happened - backstage drama? Illness? Just wasn't able to write a year-long show? (I know that for some of that time he was working on the movie; but most head writers do the movie yet continue to work on the series.) Toei needs to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Most of the series has been written by two sub-writers and Fukuda then had to come back and tie up what they'd established, some of which is conflicting. I think it could have been a better show had he been there the whole time; the first arc was much stronger and the summer movie, also written by Fukuda, performed well. Plus the show had its budget cut to finance Amazons (and a substantial amount of the remaining budget went to the Rider-1 movie), I doubt that helped either

So there were budget issues then. That explains why the Ganmeisers were used over and over again. Hell, they didn't even make suits for all of them. In some battles, the remaining as of yet unseen Ganmeisers were just floating CG orbs.

Ehh, the summer movie turned out not doing too hot in the end. It had a solid opening weekend but dropped out of the top 10 after two weeks, undoubtedly due to the stiff competition between One Piece Film Gold, Shin Godzilla, and your name.

I don't know what happened honestly. As you said, the first arc was really strong. I wonder if he didn't have a tight control over what the other writers brought to the table and just let them do whatever they wanted, eventually leading to a show with a storyline that went in several different directions except forward. Maybe Fukuda was upset about the budget cuts and gave up on the show (budget couldn't match his vision?), but he was contractually obligated to write the finale? I mean, that's basically what happened with Wizard except that Tsuyoshi Kida was pissed about having to introduce Kamen Rider Beast, and he didn't even write the movie.

I definitely wouldn't say Ghost is the worst Rider series ever (hello, Decade). But for me, it's looking like it'll be in the bottom five. Which sucks because there was so much to like about this show, and they squandered almost all of it.

Fourze is a good example of wacky hijinks dampening what's otherwise a rather unsettling premise for a story. The nature of what the Horoscopes and Gamou are and what that means for the school don't have the impact they should when most of the time is dedicated to the KR Club being stupid, especially later on when Yuki's and even Gentaro's craziness is dialed up. (And I don't say this as a Fourze hater: I just think most of these shows had the chance to be so much better than they were with the material they had.)

You see, what I liked about Fourze was that it found an upbeat tone and stuck with it. It wasn't tonally all over the place like W or OOO, mostly because the humor fit the setting. The characters were designed to be silly because it serves as a counterbalance to the evil things Gamou is doing, and that upbeat and fun attitude towards life is what ultimately helps them win in the end. If we focused on Gamou's deeds, the show would've just been no fun at all. If Fourze had taken itself seriously, it would have killed the show.

 

[Black Fang]

I personally think Ghost is even worse than Wizard. Wizard's problem was having random fillers going nowhere in the middle of the series, but towards the end when the Mages started to appear as when as Fueki's actor debuted, things actually picked up and there was a decent end to the show. Ghost however, has literally gone nowhere since the mid 20's, and the wrap up of the series is just as terrible.

I think Wizard's a bit more tolerable if you marathon it. I noticed during my rewatch a year or so back that it wasn't as aggravating as it was when I watched an episode per week.

You see, what I liked about Fourze was that it found an upbeat tone and stuck with it. It wasn't tonally all over the place like W or OOO, mostly because the humor fit the setting. The characters were designed to be silly because it serves as a counterbalance to the evil things Gamou is doing, and that upbeat and fun attitude towards life is what ultimately helps them win in the end. If we focused on Gamou's deeds, the show would've just been no fun at all. If Fourze had taken itself seriously, it would have killed the show.

You can have upbeat (Black RX is, at least compared to Black. It's almost grim compared to what current Rider considers comedy). I don't think the heroes really counterbalanced the villains is my point. The silly tipped the scale. I think Liveman and Megaranger did a better job with the "school heroes/friends turned enemies" story than Fourze.
(As a side point, I was really ticked off about how the later Horoscopes were reduced to MOTWs; Capricorn and Aquarius' stories with JK and Yuki could've been made into their own arcs with the climax in the late 30s, if Scorpio hadn't been kept around after her big defeat for no reason. Even Pisces could've been given a bigger role as another ally or antihero had she been given her Switch earlier rather than at the last minute before the finale.)

Besides, Kamen Rider ought to have an element of horror and melancholy instead of diluting them too much for the sake of keeping things light.

 

[KamenRiderUNDERGROUND]

I think a lot of the whole "it's so bad!!!! worst series EVER!!!!!" is vastly exaggerated and much of it is down to personal taste - most of the harshest criticism seems to come from fans of Gaim and Drive, both of which were written more like J-dramas and designed to appeal to a periphery demographic more than other recent Rider series did. (If that's what you expect in a Kamen Rider you probably won't enjoy a series with Ghost's tone, and vice versa.) But Ghost does have a lot of problems with pacing and inconsistency. The head writer working on less than half the episodes and writing NONE of the episodes that aired between April and August certainly didn't help. I don't know what happened - backstage drama? Illness? Just wasn't able to write a year-long show? (I know that for some of that time he was working on the movie; but most head writers do the movie yet continue to work on the series.) Toei needs to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Most of the series has been written by two sub-writers and Fukuda then had to come back and tie up what they'd established, some of which is conflicting. I think it could have been a better show had he been there the whole time; the first arc was much stronger and the summer movie, also written by Fukuda, performed well. Plus the show had its budget cut to finance Amazons (and a substantial amount of the remaining budget went to the Rider-1 movie), I doubt that helped either

It's not even that. The writing just suck. I mean a random weirdly optimistic stranger you've never seen before who says cheesy stuff gives you a hug and all of a sudden *ding* 'OMG Takeru was so right I must strive to become a good guy yeah!'.

This was literally all those people that had a 'connection' with those 15 eyecons from the first arc or so at the series.

And then at the beginning you had Makoto fighting Takeru like mad non-stop, considering Takeru is an old-friend he doesn't even think maybe to consult him about the situation? Even in the first 10 or so episodes the fights got repetitive (just like it did in Drive against Chase).

Things got slightly better with the introduction of Necrom and when they started to explore the Ganma world, and then nothing happened after that. Takeru gets Mugen and the form is literally OP. Adel or Igor fights Ghost and then disappears like 'bye now because we have to drag the series on so we can't settle things yet'.

Not to mention the redundant characters: Javel, Gyro who could have had such a larger role in the grand scheme of things, instead they just made cameos here and there, wasted potential.

And lastly, the whole supporting cast kept saying 'believe in Takeru' was just annoying, and then even Makoto and Alan started saying that. You're bloody Kamen Riders do something, rather than just praying as if Takeru was god.

So there were budget issues then. That explains why the Ganmeisers were used over and over again. Hell, they didn't even make suits for all of them. In some battles, the remaining as of yet unseen Ganmeisers were just floating CG orbs.

Ehh, the summer movie turned out not doing too hot in the end. It had a solid opening weekend but dropped out of the top 10 after two weeks, undoubtedly due to the stiff competition between One Piece Film Gold, Shin Godzilla, and your name.

I don't know what happened honestly. As you said, the first arc was really strong. I wonder if he didn't have a tight control over what the other writers brought to the table and just let them do whatever they wanted, eventually leading to a show with a storyline that went in several different directions except forward. Maybe Fukuda was upset about the budget cuts and gave up on the show (budget couldn't match his vision?), but he was contractually obligated to write the finale? I mean, that's basically what happened with Wizard except that Tsuyoshi Kida was pissed about having to introduce Kamen Rider Beast, and he didn't even write the movie.

I definitely wouldn't say Ghost is the worst Rider series ever (hello, Decade). But for me, it's looking like it'll be in the bottom five. Which sucks because there was so much to like about this show, and they squandered almost all of it.



You see, what I liked about Fourze was that it found an upbeat tone and stuck with it. It wasn't tonally all over the place like W or OOO, mostly because the humor fit the setting. The characters were designed to be silly because it serves as a counterbalance to the evil things Gamou is doing, and that upbeat and fun attitude towards life is what ultimately helps them win in the end. If we focused on Gamou's deeds, the show would've just been no fun at all. If Fourze had taken itself seriously, it would have killed the show.

Some of the Ganmaisers were just shown in weapon form, they appeared in a couple of epsiodes but that's about it.

 

[lazycoconut]

It's not even that. The writing just suck. I mean a random weirdly optimistic stranger you've never seen before who says cheesy stuff gives you a hug and all of a sudden *ding* 'OMG Takeru was so right I must strive to become a good guy yeah!'.

This was literally all those people that had a 'connection' with those 15 eyecons from the first arc or so at the series.

The hugs cured them from Ganma possession. That possession was the primary cause as to why they were doing bad and/or self-destructive things. I don't see how that's much different from, say, Wizard going into people's Underworlds to defeat their Phantoms or Fourze who would free people from the influence of an Astro Switch and then declare them friends?