Kamen Rider Ghost - FULL SERIES TALKUP

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
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Batchiriminā! Here we go then people. Yes, there's still one episode to go, but the main story has now ended so here's a place for you to scream in agony or ecstasy for the 17th Heisei Rider series, Kamen Rider Ghost!

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Zensrive

New Member
From start to finish, this series fail to hook me...yes, I tried watching it from start to finish, but I prefer to washing dishes than watching this...

Why?

Oh, I dunno. The actors don't deliver interesting performances. The camera hoggings are irritating. The science stuff are just...inept. The mythical stuff is not barely there. Maybe this will really start the decline of adult viewer of Kamen Rider....
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
Maybe this will really start the decline of adult viewer of Kamen Rider....

Toei cut Ghost's budget to finance Amazons, a Kamen Rider series aimed at adults. It is getting another series next year, a big fan event in November, and they will probably continue to make other online streaming shows like it after it ends (to compete with Tsuburaya who are now introducing an "adult" Ultraman.) Gaim, Drive, and now Ex-Aid all deliberately court a periphery demographic: who watches Urobuchi anime? Who remembers 70s-80s cop dramas, or what games were popular in the 90s? Not young children. So, no, I don't think Toei is ignoring adult viewers or that they are likely to stop watching any time soon.

I do find it very telling that your measure of quality for a Kamen Rider series is how much adults like it, despite its being aimed at and marketed to 6-8 year old children.
 

KamenRiderUNDERGROUND

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! SUBARASHI!!!!
My list of best to worst: (I have yet to watch Hibiki and Den-O in full)

Gaim
W
Drive
Ryuki
OOO
Blade
Kabuto
Kuuga
Kiva
Wizard
Fourze
Agito
555
.
.
.
.
.
Ghost

And Decade falls into another category.

Here's the actual rant about the problems of the 'final' episode:

- The final boss only appears for 1 episode? It's so rushed it's unbelievable.
- Seriously Great Eyeser is just a re-paint/re-mold of Extremer, poor effort.
- This giant destructive lazer-beam thing is destroying the city, and then it can't even sustain ONE hit! So anticlimatic. Don't get me started on how Takeru just lies on the floor despairing instead of trying, hears his mother's voice, stands up and starts his out-of-nowhere-way-too-optimistic monologuing before transforming.
- Makoto and Alan: "Takeru fight for us we believe in you (but we won't transform and help we'll just stand and stare)"
- Akari starts praying, for god sake girl HIDE SOMEWHERE.
- Ok the final bit of the fight wasn't too bad, I still don't like the characterisations of the 15 eyecons (voiced by the same person nonetheless)

Overall the whole series was way too rushed with ineffective emotional scenes, in fact I've just finished watching the Ghost X Ichigo movie, the pacing there was much more better (although the first 15/20 minutes wasn't too appealing) and they should have strived for that instead.
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
Why am I not surprised that Drive and Gaim are so high on your list? Most of the harshest criticism from Ghost seems to come from fans of those shows. Some of it is to do with petty "rivalry" between shows but generally, Ghost is a break from the last two years' trend of deliberately courting an older audience (that looks set to continue with Ex-Aid) and I suspect a lot of people don't welcome that. No matter how much some may try to deny that they expect Kamen Rider to be for adults, or dress it up with "Good media for children SHOULD appeal to adults!" - yeah, you're not fooling anyone.

I put most of my thoughts in the ep 48 thread so I'll sum them up:

Good: It's very gentle, with some very good messages for children. Love the suits and aesthetic of the show and a lot of the concepts. Also interesting in that it explores spiritual themes that aren't addressed in a lot of other Kamen Rider, and explores death in more depth than any other Heisei series. I much prefer this style of Kamen Rider than one that's trying too hard to be like a J-drama. Akari was a refreshing change from several years of female leads who primarily served as love interests and/or emotional support. Found the actors of Alan and Onari very good.

Bad: Lots of apathy from the production side: notably the long absence of the head writer and cutting its budget to fund Amazons. This, as we see, had a very detrimental effect on the show. Also felt that the more talented members of the cast were often wasted, and many characters were so under-used (Javert, Gyro, Kanon) they probably should have been cut. I don't believe that the show is "unrealistic" or "too optimistic" but have seen some criticism of Takeru saying that all parents love their children (in contrast to Drive's Banno arc); think a more general moral about how family are the people that love us would have been a better one.

I find Fourze a good comparison here - it was written by three people, all of whom had different takes on the characters. Nakashima gave Gentaro slightly more depth, and made Yuuki intelligent as well as perky; she was able to serve as a bridge between Gentaro and Kengo. Sanjo tended to write the characters as more cartoonish and more like caricatures, as well as introducing random subplots that went nowhere since none of the other two writers picked them up (e.g. his attempt to set up a Gentaro/Miu/Shun love triangle.) Hasegawa was somewhere in between. Now imagine if Nakashima had vanished for half the show, left the other two to write the rest with varying levels of consistency between it, and then had to come back and make an attempt to somehow tie it all together. All the while the show is running on a reduced budget because most of the money was channeled into funding a show to pander to an outside demographic. And before anyone comes in with "well, that's a GOOD use of money, Amazons was so much better!!!" - Of course the show that has comparatively more attention and money invested into it is gonna look better.
 

KamenRiderUNDERGROUND

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! SUBARASHI!!!!
Why am I not surprised that Drive and Gaim are so high on your list? Most of the harshest criticism from Ghost seems to come from fans of those shows. Some of it is to do with petty "rivalry" between shows but generally, Ghost is a break from the last two years' trend of deliberately courting an older audience (that looks set to continue with Ex-Aid) and I suspect a lot of people don't welcome that. No matter how much some may try to deny that they expect Kamen Rider to be for adults, or dress it up with "Good media for children SHOULD appeal to adults!" - yeah, you're not fooling anyone.

What's wrong with liking Gaim and Drive? You're having a lot grudge with the two shows. For one thing there isn't a 'petty rivalry' between shows. Drive wasn't even adult-oriented but it managed to find a nice balance.

My problem with Ghost isn't about adult or children oriented, the whole delivery was just terrible, simple as that. You can deliver the "good messages" in a much better fashion. but it wasn't persuasive at all.
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
What's wrong with liking Gaim and Drive? You're having a lot grudge with the two shows. For one thing there isn't a 'petty rivalry' between shows. Drive wasn't even adult-oriented but it managed to find a nice balance.

My problem with Ghost isn't about adult or children oriented, the whole delivery was just terrible, simple as that. You can deliver the "good messages" in a much better fashion. but it wasn't persuasive at all.

For the most part I liked Gaim (though not Drive.) But I think that for better or worse, 99% of English-speaking fans watching Kamen Rider currently are teens or adults and thus expect, whether or not they are conscious of it, that the show should/will appeal to teens and adults. Gaim and Drive are notable that in tone and use of certain elements, they made much more effort to appeal to teens/adults than most other recent Rider shows. (I'm not talking about anything being gritty or "dark" etc. It's like I said before: Who watches Urobuchi anime, and who remembers 70s-80s cop dramas? Not young children.) Ghost is a break in that pattern and is much more tailored to the show's primary target audience of 6-8 year olds. I think this accounts for a lot of the hostility towards it, especially since Ex-Aid looks set to return to the Gaim/Drive approach (the kids in the audience won't remember 90s video games either) and we got the adult-targeted Amazons this year.

I also think that teen/adult viewers are likely to be much more cynical and see Ghost's themes and messages as "too optimistic", "unrealistic", etc. The kind of criticism that shows like ToQger, Goseiger and Fourze get in that respect. You may argue that Ghost isn't a good series even for children (though I would disagree) and that's fair enough. But I think there is a lot of resentment towards it on account of it being a more child-friendly series after two years of "adult appeal"
 
The thing about Ghost is that I actually really liked the first 20ish parts of the show. It was a nice change in pace for Kamen Rider show, it had some of the best pacing for 2 parters, and there was some intrigue with some of the things in the earlier parts. Plus, I can buy the morals........ But then Grateful's episode happened....

Freaking slashing the budget with the majority of Ghost's monster designs probably would explain why we're stuck with the lamest set of villains ever. I couldn't get into the morals because the characters of the day just didn't do it for me. Though, the Ganmizers might have something to do with the mediocrity as well.

Also, Makoto and everyone else sucks.
 
Ghost in a nutshell is the opposite of Drive for me where I liked the first 20 or so episodes of Ghost and hated the Drive's first 20. Everything Drive did wrong, Ghost did right. I liked Takeru more then Shinnosuke, the supporting cast was way better than Drive's and used better too, and the pacing and mystery was surprisingly good for having to introduce like 15+ forms and side riders. But after Necrom's arc and it went downhill, especially when they kept recycling monsters. The plot didn't drag, it completely halted and scenes started to feel redundant.
 

Zensrive

New Member
Toei cut Ghost's budget to finance Amazons, a Kamen Rider series aimed at adults. It is getting another series next year, a big fan event in November, and they will probably continue to make other online streaming shows like it after it ends (to compete with Tsuburaya who are now introducing an "adult" Ultraman.) Gaim, Drive, and now Ex-Aid all deliberately court a periphery demographic: who watches Urobuchi anime? Who remembers 70s-80s cop dramas, or what games were popular in the 90s? Not young children. So, no, I don't think Toei is ignoring adult viewers or that they are likely to stop watching any time soon.

I do find it very telling that your measure of quality for a Kamen Rider series is how much adults like it, despite its being aimed at and marketed to 6-8 year old children.

I know that Kamen Rider series are for children, but you can't tell that when watching Kuuga to Hibiki. There are still hooks there for the adult viewers. Starting from Kabuto, it's gearing more and more toward children. Sure there are still hooks for adults.

But starting from Fourze, feels like they're ramping up their efforts to try eliminating adult viewers from their target demographics....

I don't mind being too optimistic either. Heck, I am trying to write a fantasy novel that is full of optimism. It's just that Ghost just doesn't have enough hooks to sustain me.

Or maybe my totkusatsus is being channeled to watch Amazons.

Heck, I don't even care about Zyuohger anymore. Maybe once Ghost is over and Ex-Aid is another dud I'll start watching Zyuohger and GARO retsuden.

But to think of it, the american TV Series are coming back, and maybe I won't even care about the japanese shows anymore. Gotham, Supergirl, Flash, Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow, Killjoys, Agents of Shield. Oh my!
 
It's funny how if we put the first 20 episodes of Ghost together with the last 25 episodes of Drive, then the combined quality would equal a pretty decent Kamen Rider series. Now if only we could have a Kamen Rider series that's good from beginning to end like Gaim again, that'd be great.
 
R

raden238

Guest
Ghost will fall under my lower tier of Heisei Rider shows. Along with Fourze and Wizard. All three shows have a lot of similarities. Most notably a boring boring main story. After watching Ghost, I learned to appreciate Fourze/Wizard a lot more than a few years ago. Ghost's story was so boring. So many episodes just felt like it was the same thing happen over and over again to me. It didn't help that they recycled the hell outta of the villain suits. After reading the previous comments on here, the budget definitely seen to have been cut due to suit designs and Amazons production but it's brutal to watch.

I was enjoying the first half of the season but once Grandma Fumi died (she was the best minor character btw, she actually played a crucial part to Alain's character), the show went downhill fast. I did not like the way the sub-storyline of Deep Connect was dragged out for so many episodes. Everything just felt so repetitive to me. The show did not do a good job explaining the lore/myth of the eyecons compared to say Drive and Gaim did with their technology/powers. The magic in the show was random as hell. It just seemed like anybody could do this and that and then bam fused into some evil monsters (Adel and Gamanizers) without any explanation. Even Takeru's powers/gift just seemed to happen, they didn't fully explain why and how he kept evolving.

Another big problem with the show were the other characters, I'll briefly review the notable ones.

Akari: Liked the way she was portrayed as a independent woman, doing anything she could to help in battle. Glad they didn't force the romance with Takeru.

Onari: Started off as a great character, again like Akari, was trying to help in battle even fighting the Ganmas at one point. But then his character completely transformed into a comedic relief annoying character with bad jokes.

Makoto: Like Kamen Rider Beast, became an absolutely pointless Secondary Rider that served no purpose to show after his main character arc was resolved. He was literally there just to fight whenever our Main Rider wasn't available. I do not like it when the writers use Kamen Riders like that. Also fighting his doppelganger was the best idea they came up with?? really??

Alain: Basically the same problems as Makoto, didn't do much after his great character arc with Grandma Fumi ended. Was just there to fight.

Kanon and the two Monk apprentices: Didn't hurt the show with their presence but didn't do enough to be important.

That douchebag Grandpa Magistrate Edith: Worst character on the show by far, caused all the problems and didn't fight. I thought he would sacrifice himself at the end like most older characters in Rider would do, but nope hes alive. Annoying and useless.

Jabel, Alia, the two good Ganmas that I forgot existed, Igor, Adel and the Great eye: All bad characters. Jabel, Alia and the 2 stooges were pointless. Igor was pretty good but they had to give him a happy ending instead of giving him, his just desserts for being such a evil villain. The end to his character just felt like a cop out, right when they could of had a better ending for him. Adel was good but the way the show was so repetitive and long, I didn't bother caring about his evil plan and was instead hoping the show would just end already.

Yurusen: Annoying character that was pointless but I liked the cute reveal that her original form was a cat. But it doesn't make sense given the lore of the show. Shouldn't she be a ghost kitty instead of a one eyed puppet ghost??

Takeru is one of my least favorite Main Riders. The ending doesn't even make sense, how can he still be the Ghost Rider if hes alive again?? Hope they explain it in the Bonus episode, Taisen 2017 and beyond. All the Main Riders keep their powers after their show ends.


Overall, I'm glad Ghost is over. I do appreciate the message this show wanted to send to kids. Be grateful to be alive and to value your life and others. It's a sweet message to give but conceptually the show was not what anyone expected. They went with a happy Ghost with a bunch of ridiculous historic figures (Edison nor Billy the Kid is a hero). A classic horror Ghost theme like Kiva would of been better. I didn't like the way the show had a ridiculous amount of form changes for the Main Rider. Nobody will remember them (except for the default, super and final) and its useless in the long run, they had to do it just to sell toys. Ghost's Iguana Striker magically disappeared and even in the last episode Takeru was riding with a completely different Rider machine. It started off ok but took a nose dive by the half way point. I'm sure the cutback in the budget had an affect on the show's quality but that doesn't excuse it from having bad writing and boring characters to have to sit through for 50 long long episodes.
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
I know that Kamen Rider series are for children, but you can't tell that when watching Kuuga to Hibiki. There are still hooks there for the adult viewers. Starting from Kabuto, it's gearing more and more toward children. Sure there are still hooks for adults.

But starting from Fourze, feels like they're ramping up their efforts to try eliminating adult viewers from their target demographics....

I find it strange you would say that when they've built two recent series (and the new one just started) around elements that appeal to adults, created an Amazon Prime show for adults (and will probably make more - Amazons did well, and Tsuburaya's releasing an adult-targeted Ultraman now) and have been releasing more collectibles and V-Cinemas for the sake of older viewers. You can tell just from the Chase movie that they didn't think (or didn't care) many kids would be watching

Akari: Liked the way she was portrayed as a independent woman, doing anything she could to help in battle. Glad they didn't force the romance with Takeru.

There was no romance (well, the Rider-1 movie appeared to be trying to set up a love triangle with them and Mayu, but that only came up in like one scene and, well, Inoue wrote it.) Gotta say that was refreshing. After 3 years of female lead as love interest and likely next year as well (everything we know about Asuna from Ex-Aid promo material makes her look like a blatant Kiriko copy) it was nice to have the franchise acknowledge women can do things other than fall in love with men.
 

Black Fang

Active Member
I find it strange you would say that when they've built two recent series (and the new one just started) around elements that appeal to adults, created an Amazon Prime show for adults (and will probably make more - Amazons did well, and Tsuburaya's releasing an adult-targeted Ultraman now) and have been releasing more collectibles and V-Cinemas for the sake of older viewers. You can tell just from the Chase movie that they didn't think (or didn't care) many kids would be watching

"Adult" can simply mean "humor that doesn't appeal to kids but still sucks" though. I haven't watched them yet but it seems the Next Generation Sharivan and Shaider V-Cinemas weren't well received.

After 3 years of female lead as love interest and likely next year as well (everything we know about Asuna from Ex-Aid promo material makes her look like a blatant Kiriko copy) it was nice to have the franchise acknowledge women can do things other than fall in love with men.

Three years? Rinko wasn't a love interest in Wizard. Or do you mean Koyomi, who was barely in the show after a while and wasn't really a love interest anyway so much as "we're the survivors of this event and we only have each other". Her and Haruto are more like Shinji and Yui from Ryuki, and those two certainly weren't a couple.

Even Mai wasn't really a love interest, either. Just because Kaito was fond of her (and that wasn't even one of his main goals) doesn't mean anything, and Kouta was just her friend. It's only Drive that placed emphasis on Shin and Kiriko potentially being an item, via Gou teasing them about it. Which frankly I liked. It (Gou's teasing) was cute.
 

lazycoconut

I liked him when he wasn't a god
"Adult" can simply mean "humor that doesn't appeal to kids but still sucks" though. I haven't watched them yet but it seems the Next Generation Sharivan and Shaider V-Cinemas weren't well received.

That's very true. But Toei is at least trying to appeal more to adult fans over the last couple of years, whether or not it succeeds ...

Three years? Rinko wasn't a love interest in Wizard. Or do you mean Koyomi, who was barely in the show after a while and wasn't really a love interest anyway so much as "we're the survivors of this event and we only have each other". Her and Haruto are more like Shinji and Yui from Ryuki, and those two certainly weren't a couple.

Even Mai wasn't really a love interest, either. Just because Kaito was fond of her (and that wasn't even one of his main goals) doesn't mean anything, and Kouta was just her friend. It's only Drive that placed emphasis on Shin and Kiriko potentially being an item, via Gou teasing them about it. Which frankly I liked. It (Gou's teasing) was cute.

Fear too much more discussion on this would go OT (and go into creative team's intent which seems to be a touchy subject around some places) but suffice it to say I think it was refreshing even after last year to see the hero & female lead have a warm relationship that wasn't romantic. I wish the show had kept up the "faith vs logic" represented by Onari and Akari more after the first arc but I still like what we got in that respect
 
D

Dr Kain

Guest
Wait, is the show over already?

Based on the comments, I don't know if I even want to give this show a second chance.
 

Wing Saber

Active Member
It's funny how if we put the first 20 episodes of Ghost together with the last 25 episodes of Drive, then the combined quality would equal a pretty decent Kamen Rider series. Now if only we could have a Kamen Rider series that's good from beginning to end like Gaim again, that'd be great.

I do agree that Ghost is the reverse of Drive, To where it slowed down in the middle.
 

SamuraiEchidna

Active Member
I guess I am the only one who actually liked Ghost for the most part.

The ending was less than what I had hoped for, and I feel like we never got the full story behind Edith and what Alain's family was trying to accomplish. We got the gist of it and most of the details, but I feel like there was still something missing... Not to mention bringing up the details about Takeru's mother went nowhere.

But other than those very minor things, I had fun along the ride. I honestly feel like Toei might be getting much closer to finding that perfect blend between dark and fun. :)
 
Watched the Kamen Rider 1 movie. It was the one that wasn't as bad as the other Taisen movies. Sure there were the usual errors in writing and jarring jump cuts, but for the most part it didn't make me angry at its existence.
 
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