Roboblob223
Asian
But wasn't Dr. Maki seeking to fulfill his desire? Micchy's more seeking to do whatever it takes to protect his (and his friends') happiness no matter the cost.
Kamen Rider Gaim Ep 26 - "Baron's Genesis Transformation!"
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But wasn't Dr. Maki seeking to fulfill his desire? Micchy's more seeking to do whatever it takes to protect his (and his friends') happiness no matter the cost.
Kamen Rider Disco
Member
I think the labeling of Micchi as a psychopath is a little misleading. Based on what I have seen, I would say he is more of a SOCIOPATH rather than a PSYCHOPATH.
1.) His background. Growing up in a controlled environment led him to possess a desire to have control for himself. Also, along with this privileged upbringing, he does have a sense of entitlement which leads him to do these things. If he were psychotic, he'd be doing these things out a biological compulsion.
2.) His skill with manipulation. Sociopaths, despite their lack of empathy for other people, are very charming and can easily blend in with other people. Psychopaths are usually violent and tend to be unable to interact well with others. The sociopath is more likely to manipulate other people into being violent instead and can actually deal very well with people as we have seen Micchi do, none of the group suspecting he has an ulterior motive.
3.) His care about Takatora, Mai, Kouta, and the rest of Team Gaim. Psychopaths don't really have care for anyone, but the sociopath may have one or two people they care about, even if it's more so as a pet. And we've seen that, at least to some extent, he cares about his brother and the team, albeit the way he sees it is twisted by his own desires.
I don't know if this real changes the way anyone here sees Micchi, but the main point I wanted to make with this is that everything Micchi is doing is based on an active choice (sociopath), rather than some uncontrollable compulsion (psychopath). It's planned out and everything. Do I find Micchi somewhat sympathetic? Yes. He's just a kid who has had the majority of his life dictated to him and simply wants control over his life. Do I think that gives him a pass for what he has done? Not a chance. Wanting to control one's own destiny is one thing. Thinking one has the right to not only control their own fate, but the fates of everyone around them is another.
1.) His background. Growing up in a controlled environment led him to possess a desire to have control for himself. Also, along with this privileged upbringing, he does have a sense of entitlement which leads him to do these things. If he were psychotic, he'd be doing these things out a biological compulsion.
2.) His skill with manipulation. Sociopaths, despite their lack of empathy for other people, are very charming and can easily blend in with other people. Psychopaths are usually violent and tend to be unable to interact well with others. The sociopath is more likely to manipulate other people into being violent instead and can actually deal very well with people as we have seen Micchi do, none of the group suspecting he has an ulterior motive.
3.) His care about Takatora, Mai, Kouta, and the rest of Team Gaim. Psychopaths don't really have care for anyone, but the sociopath may have one or two people they care about, even if it's more so as a pet. And we've seen that, at least to some extent, he cares about his brother and the team, albeit the way he sees it is twisted by his own desires.
I don't know if this real changes the way anyone here sees Micchi, but the main point I wanted to make with this is that everything Micchi is doing is based on an active choice (sociopath), rather than some uncontrollable compulsion (psychopath). It's planned out and everything. Do I find Micchi somewhat sympathetic? Yes. He's just a kid who has had the majority of his life dictated to him and simply wants control over his life. Do I think that gives him a pass for what he has done? Not a chance. Wanting to control one's own destiny is one thing. Thinking one has the right to not only control their own fate, but the fates of everyone around them is another.
Chronosaurus Archimedes
New Member
Yeah seriously. He referenced Ryoma as the saigo ni kibo da. Takatora might as well have almost became a phantom on the most recent Sabbath.
I - kind of find the contention that Micchy is just a kid trying to do what's best for his friends to be a little laughable. Not the bit about him being a kid, he is that, the second bit.
Micchy has never shown any kind of genuine concern over his friends' happiness. He has remarked before that he wants Kouta to suffer more if it means he'll be more obedient; when Mai slaps him (with good reason, given that he's just attacked her friend and in so doing revealed his own deception), his immediate response is to arrange for Kouta's murder instead of apologising or trying to make amends with her; he arranges for Team Gaim to come down with him to the shelter, but it doesn't seem to occur to him that they might have family or friends who would all die.
The consistent thread of Micchy's actions is that everything he does, from the moment he asked Sid for that Sengoku Driver, is to control other people: He'll lie to them, guilt trip them, position himself so that he's more valuable to them, and rather gleefully enjoy them suffering if he thinks that it will make them more dependent on him.
If I were going to be favourable towards him, I'd say he has massive self-esteem issues and is terrified of being abandoned and left alone, so he's doing everything he can to try to keep his friends around, regardless of whether they want it or not. That doesn't make what he's doing any better, it just means he should see a therapist.
Micchy has never shown any kind of genuine concern over his friends' happiness. He has remarked before that he wants Kouta to suffer more if it means he'll be more obedient; when Mai slaps him (with good reason, given that he's just attacked her friend and in so doing revealed his own deception), his immediate response is to arrange for Kouta's murder instead of apologising or trying to make amends with her; he arranges for Team Gaim to come down with him to the shelter, but it doesn't seem to occur to him that they might have family or friends who would all die.
The consistent thread of Micchy's actions is that everything he does, from the moment he asked Sid for that Sengoku Driver, is to control other people: He'll lie to them, guilt trip them, position himself so that he's more valuable to them, and rather gleefully enjoy them suffering if he thinks that it will make them more dependent on him.
If I were going to be favourable towards him, I'd say he has massive self-esteem issues and is terrified of being abandoned and left alone, so he's doing everything he can to try to keep his friends around, regardless of whether they want it or not. That doesn't make what he's doing any better, it just means he should see a therapist.
Glad to know I'm not crazy about the Lockseed effects sounding off. I noticed it last week as well. And am I mistaken or was Kaito's transformation the first time we've seen extra sound effects with a Genesis Driver?
Rather nice to see Micchy get called out just a bit. Looking forward to it happening more, though I'm not sure how Kouta might take finding out Micchy has been stabbing him in the back and sabotaging his efforts as of late.
I am actually curious as to whether Micchy or one of the others might try stealing the Kachidoki Lockseed. I'm rather surprised Ryouma didn't order that before given he had never seen it before. I'd be so happy if they went to try and use it and found it only worked for Kouta for some reason.
And yeah, looks like we've got another Overlord. I kind of get a leader vibe off him too.
Rather nice to see Micchy get called out just a bit. Looking forward to it happening more, though I'm not sure how Kouta might take finding out Micchy has been stabbing him in the back and sabotaging his efforts as of late.
I am actually curious as to whether Micchy or one of the others might try stealing the Kachidoki Lockseed. I'm rather surprised Ryouma didn't order that before given he had never seen it before. I'd be so happy if they went to try and use it and found it only worked for Kouta for some reason.
And yeah, looks like we've got another Overlord. I kind of get a leader vibe off him too.
Scissors
Member
I have no doubts that Micchy wants to protect his friends and make sure they are always happy. I have nothing against that.
The problem is that he is willing to murder any of those friends in a second if they go against his wishes.
The only reason why he has gone soft on Kouta up until now is because Kouta was one of his best friends.
What if one of the other Gaim members such as Rat became a threat to him? I am pretty sure he would make him "disappear" very fast.
And what is he gonna do later on when the members on his team start growing up and moving on?
It seems like he thinks that everyone is gonna be young and carefree forever. I do not hate him as much as I feel sorry for him, because basically he just wants to be a kid forever.
The problem is that he is willing to murder any of those friends in a second if they go against his wishes.
The only reason why he has gone soft on Kouta up until now is because Kouta was one of his best friends.
What if one of the other Gaim members such as Rat became a threat to him? I am pretty sure he would make him "disappear" very fast.
And what is he gonna do later on when the members on his team start growing up and moving on?
It seems like he thinks that everyone is gonna be young and carefree forever. I do not hate him as much as I feel sorry for him, because basically he just wants to be a kid forever.
NeonZ
Active Member
That only makes sense if you start from the premise that he's only protecting his own happiness. Otherwise, there's nothing egoist about betraying someone who might act against his friends' happiness.
Micchy's recent negative attitude towards Kouta comes from seeing him as someone who threatens this "happiness" that he wants to protect, due to intention of revealing the truth about what's going on to others and getting in Yggdrazil's way (the only path to the survival of anyone based on the information available to Micchy). It's obvious that Micchy's incredibly misguided here, and his actions are leading to an opposite effect, like this episode showed, but I think you're ignoring earlier parts of the show.
He kept Yuuya's death to himself, exactly due to fearing that Kouta would have some breakdown after learning about it. He never used it as some kind of weapon to threat Kouta. He also tried to convince Kouta to stop using the Sengoku Driver after the first arc, in order to just move everyone away from the matters related to Yggdrazil.
His more antagonist attitude towards Kouta now come purely from his emotions, due to Kouta's actions clashing with his own, and it actually just gets in the way of his goal. It's especially obvious in this episode since his explosion in front of Mai basically just hurts what he's trying to do (whether you think that it's just artificially keeping the environment that he enjoys without any regard for the actual people there or actually protecting the happiness of his friends).
I'm not trying to say that Micchy is a good person either though, especially considering how, even if you believe that he wants to protect his friend's happiness, he shows a complete disregard to the lives of people outside of his group.
KamenRiderUNDERGROUND
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! SUBARASHI!!!!
Translation for Overlord language this episode:
1. Kaito encounters Demushu
Demushu: It's this bastard again. Let me enjoy myself.
Kaito: From now on it's Round 2.
Demushu: Hmm?
2. Baron Lemon Energy VS Demushu
Demushu: Don't get cocky! You cheeky monkey!
Demushu: God dammit!
Demushu: (In Japanese) You cheeky monkey, how dare you hurt me?!
- Gaim appears and grabs Demushu
Demushu: (In Japanese) Do you want to die with him?
Redyue: Demushu, it's time to go. If you keep going, Master Roshu will be angry.
Demushu: Redyue you're a bastard as well. (Disappears)
1. Kaito encounters Demushu
Demushu: It's this bastard again. Let me enjoy myself.
Kaito: From now on it's Round 2.
Demushu: Hmm?
2. Baron Lemon Energy VS Demushu
Demushu: Don't get cocky! You cheeky monkey!
Demushu: God dammit!
Demushu: (In Japanese) You cheeky monkey, how dare you hurt me?!
- Gaim appears and grabs Demushu
Demushu: (In Japanese) Do you want to die with him?
Redyue: Demushu, it's time to go. If you keep going, Master Roshu will be angry.
Demushu: Redyue you're a bastard as well. (Disappears)
I agree with you.
If Micchy truly wanted his friends to be happy, he wouldn't have joined Yggdrasil and he wouldn't have just used all those jail-broken lockseeds to sabotage the beatriders' efforts to plead their innocence (that's what it looked like they were doing from my Point of view). Not to mention that risked the lives of innocent people, including his friends, just to cover Yggdrasil's ass.
Does he truly believe that his friends would be happy with being public enemy #1? I sure as hell don't!
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kuroihikari
Member
No, it makes sense every time. He says anyone, without an exception, so why should we assume otherwise?
We don't even have to stick to a literal exegesis of the wording. If we look at his actions, he actually has betrayed the people he supposedly cared about (Takatora, Kouta, etc.) . Clearly, he meant that he would betray anyone, literally and without exception, and has done so.
I'm thinking that somewhere along the end, his redemption will come by betraying himself.
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