Kamen Rider Decade rumor/picture thread

[Lynxara]

Hm... I just disagree with your idea of a movie being used primarily as marketing for a tv series.

I've been watching tokusatsu for about fifteen years now and that's pretty much how Toei has always rolled. The movies are an arm of a very complex array of merchandising that's built up around each year's Sentai and later Rider iterations, which are usually anchored by the TV show.

The movies aren't "just" marketing for the TV show, of course, but they also aren't meant to generate massive piles of money on their own. They don't tend to do especially well at Japanese box office when I've checked figures and if they do it tends not to last long.

Instead the movies are used as part of a strategy for driving extra merch and visibility for the property - CDs, the inevitable DVD, toys of any movie-only crap, and general publicity for the franchise. Getting hold of a Japanese consumer's attention for any significant length of time is infamously difficult and something like a movie release tends to raise awareness with a lot of folks who wouldn't ordinarily see the franchise.

Now, I notice a lot of your examples are from Den-O, and it's worth noting that Den-O is extremely anomalous in terms of how Toei usually tends to use movies as part of a franchise. The Den-O movies are, as I understand it, the result of Den-O's popularity unexpectedly exploding after Kiva was very far into pre-production. Toei sort of had to use movies to continue Den-O at that point due to scheduling reasons.

These out of season movies might feature something from a new or upcoming series, but their point is to generate revenue directly. Just look at movie exclusive Riders.

The only people who ever really seem to care about the movie-exclusive Riders tend to be the toy collectors, who are usually a bit older than your average Rider viewer. That's why you get a lot of unusual types of character that only older fans really want to see, like female Riders, created as movie exclusives. In that regard the movie-only stature of the Rider suit helps make the toy seem more rare and exclusive, and so drives sales.

Though, acutally... almost all of the movie-exclusive Riders from the past ten years WERE reused on television for Decade. Probably in part because it would let them re-use suits that probably very few people watching Decade had seen much before. I'm sure it also goosed demand for movie-exclusive Rider merch and old DVDs, too.

 

[NeonZ]

They don't tend to do especially well at Japanese box office when I've checked figures and if they do it tends not to last long.

But they're also fairly low budget, with effects that aren't much better (if at all - like the Kabuto movie, which looked worse than some tv series episodes) than the ones seen in the tv series.

Now, I notice a lot of your examples are from Den-O, and it's worth noting that Den-O is extremely anomalous in terms of how Toei usually tends to use movies as part of a franchise. The Den-O movies are, as I understand it, the result of Den-O's popularity unexpectedly exploding after Kiva was very far into pre-production. Toei sort of had to use movies to continue Den-O at that point due to scheduling reasons.

Decade has been a bigger success than Den-O in several ways, so I don't see why the same situation wouldn't apply here. Besides, the scheduling reasons don't explain Decade's absence in the Den-O & Decade movie.

My examples aren't just Den-O related though. Look at Decade itself, the tv series was used to promote the Den-O, All Riders and now Decade&Double movie, including even scenes that make no sense without the movie, but the first two movies didn't do a similar thing for the tv show.

The All Riders movie featured Double's debut before his own tv show, in a brief scene that was clearly meant to market it. I don't see how you think that a small participation would have a negative effect on the franchise, especially if that small participation is highlighted significantly (although, obviously, his participation in this one will be bigger than the one in All Riders).

Instead the movies are used as part of a strategy for driving extra merch and visibility for the property - CDs, the inevitable DVD, toys of any movie-only crap, and general publicity for the franchise. Getting hold of a Japanese consumer's attention for any significant length of time is infamously difficult and something like a movie release tends to raise awareness with a lot of folks who wouldn't ordinarily see the franchise.

I don't disagree with what you said here... marketing for the tv show itself isn't the movie's main priority, it's just part of a bigger whole. However, I arrive at a different conclusion - that's why I think Double will be featured, even if he's not the focus.

I just don't see how Decade could not be the focus considering what we know - 2 new Decade based villains, Narutaki still around, Heisei Riders still around, not a single picture of Double or of his setting(a futuristic city).

Even if you tried to pick Kiva scenes from Kiva&Den-O and Decade scenes from Decade&Den-O, you wouldn't be able to produce a teaser as focused purely on Kiva or Decade as the Decade&Double teaser focused on Decade.

 

[aniking_8]

When will the HBV be releasing?

 

[social_deviance]

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. Need to get my hands on that issue of Televikun.

 

[KickHopper]

Alright so I watched the Decade Finale RAW, and I'm going to put down what I'm pretty sure was said and what I got from it as well. MAJOR SPOILERS, DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED WITH THE FINALE, OR WITH BOTH MOVIES.

[HIDE]So, basically we get the brawl with Super Apollo Geist and the big bads from each main Rider world visited (minus Gyuki and the big bad in Kuuga world for some reason, and Ryuki had no big bad). The combined forces of Decade, Diend, AU Kuuga, AU Kiva, and AU Hibiki destroy the big bads with probably one of the lamest sets of Rider Kicks I've ever seen. Within those Rider Kicks, Diend's legs shoot out cyan flames, AU Kuuga's shoot out flames, AU Kiva doesn't do Wake Up so it's a normal kick as is AU Hibiki. Decade Complete actually apparently uses a card because we hear "FINAL ATTACK RIDE: D-D-D-Decade!" but it doesn't look anywhere near as epic as it should, nor as epic as it does in the Climax Heroes video game. Super Apollo Geist uses Super Geist Cutter aka Captain America ripoff move towards Decade Complete, but AU Kuuga gets in the way, getting knocked unconscious and out of his transformation. Decade Complete uses FINAL ATTACK RIDE: DIEND that Diend just randomly tossed to him (by the way, it wasn't the Final Attack Ride card shown, it was Diend's henshin card, once again showing that Toei has no attention to detail) for them to do the finisher together on Apollo Geist, which is what makes all the cards on Decade's chest switch over to Diend. They blows up Apollo Geist. Everyone's happy yay! Except Natsumi realizes that they are in the very same spot and she is in the very same dress that was in her dream from the ep 1 intro. OH SHI-! AU Kiva and AU Hibiki disappear like AU Blade did! OH SHI- again! Then, suddenly, Tsukasa turns around and he's back where he was in ep 1 when he was speaking with Kurenai Wataru, and there is the half Fangire himself. He proceeds to tell Tsukasa that he failed in saving the world, or that he is the real threat or something. I specifically hear him say something about being the Kamen Rider who destroys everything ("Anata subete Kamen Rider hakaisha something something"). And then I think he says something about him and his comrades now having to deal with Tsukasa. He transforms (with no animation of Kivat ), and we even get to hear the cry of Kiva Flight Mode with the delayed eye-shine. He charges at Tsukasa, and then suddenly Tsukasa is back in the world of the Rider War, surrounded by what can be assumed to be all the ORIGINAL Riders, sans Kuuga. Kenzaki Kazuma arrives with a simple and casual "Decade-o, omae wa taosu..." which in English of course means "Decade, you will die..." followed by "Henshin..." again very casual into King Form. Tsukasa Henshins. Natsumi is like "Oh noes... WAIT, YUUSUKE IS STILL HERE AND NOT MOVING!" and proceeds to run to Yuusuke. Kivala shows up, is all like "Bitch, move," GABU-bites Yuusuke, you actually see the Active Force go into him from the bite. She announces the arrival of Ultimate Kuuga. Yuusuke then shoves Natsumi out of the way, stands up, looks all crazy like, and transforms into Black-Eyed Ultimate Kuuga, while Kivala cackles like a witch. Narutaki fangasms over all the Kamen Riders arriving to finally kill Decade. RIDER CHARGE! Diend arrives! Is Decade getting help? "Tsukasa..." "Kaito?!" BLAM! NO! DIEND SHOOTS HIM POINT BLANK IN THE FACE! Natsumi then shouts out "DECADE-O!" and end episode. Fucking cliff hanger. Also, why would Natsumi shout out "Decade" and not "Tsukasa"? This is from what I can recall the first and only time she does this. Then we get the movie teasers.

In the teasers, you clearly hear Natsumi say "I will kill/defeat Decade!" as she hoists up the shot gun. What?! Then Kamen Rider Kivala arrives, announces herself as Kivala in Kivala's voice (wtf?) and bitch-slaps Decade Complete. We then see a black-haired, black-clothed Tsukasa punch a lighter-haired Tsukasa wearing what looks like Doctor Who clothes, then become Decade Complete to beat up Doctor-Tsukasa some more. We also see Kuuga casually **** up Diend. Then, a mysterious person in white with floofed back hair appears. End teasers.

I have to say, the finale was insane, but could've been handled much better. From the teasers, I like what I see, except Kivala. I'm sick of seeing secondary Kiva riders WITH THE SAME DAMN COLOR SCHEME. IXA, Rey, and Saga all had the white-and-blue color scheme. COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW TOEI! I would've loved to have seen something similar to this pic

Also, Kivala is too small to be on a belt. She should be like a Henshin Brace instead.

What I get from this episode, with Narutaki always saying that Decade is in fact destroying worlds, and Wataru telling him he failed... is that Decade really was supposed to destroy the worlds he visited. I think they were some kind of false worlds that were interfering with and destroying the true Rider Worlds, and by helping them exist, Tsukasa did in fact screw things up and allowed Dai-Shocker to screw things up even more. We already get that from the symbols and from the movie, that Tsukasa came from the world of Dai-Shocker, and in fact worked for them and that Decade was made by Dai-Shocker. So Decade screwed up, and now truly the only way left to fix things is to kill him. Woops. So we'll find out how things end in December then.

Also, this episode I believe proves that the movie is officially an alternate ending. God dammit.[/HIDE]

 

[big_j_ny]

[HIDE]
Also, this episode I believe proves that the movie is officially an alternate ending. God dammit.[/HIDE]

Doubt it.........there's no way in hell they'd create Dai-Shocker in the series if the Decade movie was gonna end up as an alternate ending. Add on to the fact that there were Dai-Shocker soldiers running around Amazon World the same way they were running around in the movie.......zero chance in hell that the movie is an alternate ending.

It's more than likely shoved in between episodes 27-31, but because the Kabuto head writer doesn't know jackshit @ how to connect endings with the rest of the tv series (watch the last 2-3 episodes of Kabuto and see if there's any consistency with the rest of the series), we have zero idea whether it occurred after RX/Black Worlds, after Amazon World, or after the Rider War.

 

[KickHopper]

Doubt it.........there's no way in hell they'd create Dai-Shocker in the series if the Decade movie was gonna end up as an alternate ending. Add on to the fact that there were Dai-Shocker soldiers running around Amazon World the same way they were running around in the movie.......zero chance in hell that the movie is an alternate ending.

It's more than likely shoved in between episodes 27-31, but because the Kabuto head writer doesn't know jackshit @ how to connect endings with the rest of the tv series (watch the last 2-3 episodes of Kabuto and see if there's any consistency with the rest of the series), we have zero idea whether it occurred after RX/Black Worlds, after Amazon World, or after the Rider War.

From what I've seen and heard, they defeat Dai-Shocker completely in the movie. We never hear the end of Dai-Shocker mentioned at all in the series, and they go straight from Amazon to this world, whereas with the Den-O/Decade crossover there's a discontinuity between the Den-O world and the Kabuto world. And the December movie is supposed to be the true finale to the series.

 

[Lynxara]

Decade has been a bigger success than Den-O in several ways, so I don't see why the same situation wouldn't apply here.

I've seen no real evidence that suggests Decade's eclipsed Den-O yet. Evidence that Decade's done well, sure, but Den-O's level of popularity was just absolutely ridiculous. Hell, I was in Japan earlier this year and even with Decade on the air, it was still just Den-O crap everywhere in the stores and the gachapon machines.

The only actual sign I saw of Decade even being on TV was in the train station-- there were really prominent ads for re-runs of Faiz and Ryuki starting on some cable channel that had a small "as seen on Decade" bit in the copy.

Look at Decade itself, the tv series was used to promote the Den-O, All Riders and now Decade&Double movie, including even scenes that make no sense without the movie, but the first two movies didn't do a similar thing for the tv show.

This doesn't even make sense. How would anybody make any goddamn sense out of All Riders without at least knowing "Hey, there's a TV show where all these characters were introduced"? I mean, how would you get through Den-O/Decade without at least going, "Oh, that pink guy must be the new Rider on TV this year?" Of course the movies pimped the TV shows, they did that simply by existing.

I just don't see how Decade could not be the focus considering what we know - 2 new Decade based villains, Narutaki still around, Heisei Riders still around, not a single picture of Double or of his setting(a futuristic city).

We've also had exactly one film trailer and one mag spread about the flick. Of course they're emphasizing the Decade stuff now! W hasn't even started yet but Decade just had its huge finale. People care about Decade stuff right now so Toei gives us Decade stuff.

That doesn't mean the movie necessarily won't be giving W a substantial amount of camera time. What will really be telling is how Toei's future ads for the show look, especially what the November ads look like.

If they keep emphasizing the Decade stuff just as much, even when W is in full swing, then you're probably right! I'd be quite happy with that, actually. But what I expect to happen is that as we get closer to the movie's air date, we get more trailers and mag scans showing off the movie's W content. People will have a reason to care about that in two or three months that they really don't right now.

Even if you tried to pick Kiva scenes from Kiva&Den-O and Decade scenes from Decade&Den-O, you wouldn't be able to produce a teaser as focused purely on Kiva or Decade as the Decade&Double teaser focused on Decade.

I dispute this quite strongly. Go back and check out how short the movie trailer at the end of 31 is-- it's something like 19 seconds long if I'm remembering right. Are you seriously arguing you couldn't find 19 seconds of Kiva footage in that crossover flick, or 19 seconds of Decade stuff in his Den-O crossover movie? Never underestimate what a clever editor with an agenda can accomplish.

 

[ShinmeiSuzaku]

From what I've seen and heard, they defeat Dai-Shocker completely in the movie. We never hear the end of Dai-Shocker mentioned at all in the series, and they go straight from Amazon to this world, whereas with the Den-O/Decade crossover there's a discontinuity between the Den-O world and the Kabuto world. And the December movie is supposed to be the true finale to the series.

Yeah, reading the Spoiler Filed Igadevil review of the film and having finished decade yesterday, the film does seem more AU than anything.
At the end of Amazon world they do show Dai-Shocker Castle, and in the Rider War world we also see Tsukasa walking towards the Castle, but it seems to not really mean much. They don't even mention the events of the movie within the series. The Last world Pretty much explains it, Dai-Shocker is nothing, they arent important because Decade is the real enemy.

 

[NeonZ]

I've seen no real evidence that suggests Decade's eclipsed Den-O yet. Evidence that Decade's done well, sure, but Den-O's level of popularity was just absolutely ridiculous. Hell, I was in Japan earlier this year and even with Decade on the air, it was still just Den-O crap everywhere in the stores and the gachapon machines.

Like I've said before, it has higher ratings and the finalform ride toyline seems to have been much more successful than any of Den-O's (and that line is even getting a direct continuation for Double). Decade's ALL RIDER movie also was (at least, initially) more successful than Den-O's efforts.

I can't comment about other related products, maybe Den-O still leads there.

This doesn't even make sense. How would anybody make any goddamn sense out of All Riders without at least knowing "Hey, there's a TV show where all these characters were introduced"? I mean, how would you get through Den-O/Decade without at least going, "Oh, that pink guy must be the new Rider on TV this year?" Of course the movies pimped the TV shows, they did that simply by existing.

That's obviously not what we're talking about, considering how you think that Double's existence in the next movie won't be enough for Toei. The tv series directly showed scenes that only make sense with the movie plot, but neither of the movies dovetailed back, introducing something that would only make sense if you went to watch the next arc of the tv show.

I just... man, I can't get my mind around this. Faiz was probably the Decade arc I liked the least (either that or the horrifyingly stupid Kabuto arc) because it felt like so horribly unlike Faiz in any significant way.

The Faiz arc directly took several events from the series, apparently kept the same background and executed the "dreams" theme better than Faiz itself. The villains had a really bad characterization and Faiz's movements didn't match the original's, but that seems more like a problem or mistake than an intended characteristic.

Also "horrifyingly stupid" Kabuto arc? There were some annoying inconsistencies with the Clock Up in the 2nd episode, but otherwise that was pretty much one of the best arcs in this show. It was the first world that had Riders that actually could stand up to Decade and Diend.

The characters weren't remotely comparable and the plot contained very few shout-outs to things that would have been important to a Faiz fan. If you seriously think the Faiz and Kuuga A.R.s were equally similar to their source material then yeah, of course you're not going to grasp any of my arguments.

How so? Ogami's story was essentially a condensed version of Inui's, even in his development, unlike Godai and Yuusuke. The only difference between them was that Ogami used "shyness" to mask himself while Inui used a jerk-like attitude. In the end, both wanted to protect dreams too.

The combat choreography failed, especially because Faiz didn't mimic the original's combat style, unlike most others AR Riders, but that seemed more like a problem rather than some intended difference.

That only means you get Ultimate after the Kuuga user has gotten all the other forms. Since Decade's Kuuga is kind of on fast-forward, we see Onodera with access to all of the forms except Ultimate from the very beginning of the show.

That's not true. He only had the basic forms, not any of the Rising ones or even Amazing Mighty. Only in the later episodes of the show the development to Ultimate Form was brought up, after Godai had the advanced forms, not while he just had the standard mode changes.

es, Kivaara clearly gives Onodera a necessary push, but Onodera was physically ready for the black-eyes evolution from the time Tsukasa meets him. Whether or not his own "effort" makes the form is irrelevant. It's still his Arkull Belt that has to produce the power of black-eyes Ultimate Kuuga and Onodera's own lack of will that keeps it from becoming red-eyed.

This is where we disagree. Yuusuke just wasn't physically capable of going to ultimate form by himself as he was in the series, considering his lack of forms (or any comment about internal changes).

I dispute this quite strongly. Go back and check out how short the movie trailer at the end of 31 is-- it's something like 19 seconds long if I'm remembering right. Are you seriously arguing you couldn't find 19 seconds of Kiva footage in that crossover flick, or 19 seconds of Decade stuff in his Den-O crossover movie? Never underestimate what a clever editor with an agenda can accomplish.

I realize the shortness of that trailer, but you don't seem to realize how Decade and Kiva light the Den-O movies were. For Kiva & Den-O, Wataru's only untransformed scene was basically interacting with Ryotaro. His only battle was against Nega Den-O and afterwards in the sands of time. Getting pure-Kiva only shots would be almost impossible.

Same goes to the Decade&Den-O movie. The studio scenes feature Sieg, later on Decade is in the Denliner, then he's fighting against enemies from Super Den-O. In both cases, getting pure shots focusing only in the secondary series, without any Den-O elements, would be almost impossible, especially if you are including multiple scenes.