Best Gundam TV series?

[Sage Shinigami]

Japan's affection for the original Gundam stuff cannot be overstated, it's probably one of the most famous anime ever made over there. Likewise, Japan's always been kind of indifferent to Wing and mystified by the Western fascination with it. Certainly Bandai had no idea how to capitalize on Gundam Wing's huge popularity in the US.

Bandai had no idea how to capitalize on Gundam's popularity in the US, period. I'm not sure what led them to think following a flashy series like Wing with something like MSG would work, but it was a terrible idea. Likewise, taking a "Gar" series like G Gundam and then coming behind it with cutesy 3D SD Gundam is likely the most moronic thing I've ever seen a company do.

Well, that's fine. It doesn't necessarily mean Frontier is a better show, mind you, it may just mean you personally prefer modern animation styles or just happened to like the characters better. There's nothing wrong with that.

Quality and likability can be divorced from each other, especially when you're dealing with a very topical satire like the original Macross. Frontier is a much more straight-faced show, which makes it less interesting to me given that I associate the Macross brand with marrying mecha spectacle to smart satire.

Well in all honesty I was never aware of Macross' status as a satire. ...Actually, I'd wager that most fans who aren't especially knowledgeable aren't, at that. Then again, its been years since I've seen Macross, and I haven't seen enough 80's and 90's era anime to pick up on the references, either.

Plus viewed through that light, one could actually view the series as a parody of the Macross Universe itself. ^^

Macross 7, like the original, is a completely brilliant satire of what other mecha shows were doing at the time. It is also the product of one of the most gifted mecha show directors of the 90s (who will be doing the upcoming Break Blade movies) and one of the most insanely gifted mecha show script writers of the era.

I have honestly met very few people who've actually seen any substantial amount of Macross 7 and disliked it. Once people understand what the show is doing, it tends to click. It's also just such an original and daring series that it's amazing that it just got made. Much like the also-brilliant and subversive Iron Leaguer, it's a show that could never, ever be made now.

I think the problem here is that few view either series as a parody. Seriously, I spend a LOT of time on anime forums and this is the first time I've ever seen this espoused.

Its kind of like my personal view on the anime series Kampfer as a parody of harem & battle anime of the 00. Its rare that I see anyone espouse that view, but its definitely there if you're paying attention.

I wonder if Unicorn is going to change how people feel about ZZ, since it plot is so heavily connected to that show.

Really? I thought ZZ was pretty much axed from UC continuity after A New Translation finished?

That's so weird. I thought I was the only one who saw the Zeta/ZZ and Black/RX connection. I should make a thread about that.

No sir. I picked up on it some time ago, though I've never known anyone who's knowledgeable enough in anime and tokusatsu to get it.

Damn, all this Macross talk really makes me want another series. It's a good think Unicorn is awesome or else I'd be pissed off at Gundam

Nah, I actually liked Frontier. I'd rather have another Gundam series. This time set in the UC. I've got Unicorn, now if I can get a TV series set after Victory...

 

[Lynxara]

I'm not sure what led them to think following a flashy series like Wing with something like MSG would work, but it was a terrible idea.

Bandai's logic was pretty much, "They like Gundam Wing? That show was terrible! If we show them First, it will blow their minds-- and we'll be able to sell all of our First merch to them!"

I just don't see how nobody with sufficient clout ever got through to Sunrise, "Look, American anime fans care way more about how a show looks than what the writing is like, they will never accept any series that looks dated. Just show X now and sync up the marketing in a few years."

Likewise, taking a "Gar" series like G Gundam and then coming behind it with cutesy 3D SD Gundam is likely the most moronic thing I've ever seen a company do.

In Japan generally the same sorts of fans like G Gundam and SD Gundam stuff, so this was yet another case of Bandai not realizing that the American market has its own rules.

Plus viewed through that light, one could actually view the series as a parody of the Macross Universe itself. ^^

It takes some jabs at fans, but... no, Frontier is really not satirical of Macross tropes. I think it meant to be a satire of the culture of recycling and pandering modern anime has fallen into. Just, the show could never make itself stop pandering in the exact same ways when it came time to promote character merchandise.

Frontier had a lot of potential, but it just needed a smarter script and better direction (outside of the mechanical sequences, which were glorious). The show also needed to commit more to Sheryl Nome as a character despite how much the Japanese fans hated her. Had they done so, Frontier I think would've been a much more successful satire.

Its kind of like my personal view on the anime series Kampfer as a parody of harem & battle anime of the 00.

I feel like I should note here that parody and satire are not quite the same thing. Parody is more broad and obvious, generally played for humor. A satire doesn't necessarily have to be funny. What satire is about is illustrating how a something is completely illogical, ridiculous, or otherwise just kind of a bad idea.

That said: I can actually kind of see your point with Kampfer being intended as satire of harem & battle shows. I don't think I've seen enough of the show whether to say it's a good satire or not, but it's definitely there. Anyway, you rarely hear anime forum-goers talk about shows as satirical or not unless it's very very obvious.

Really? I thought ZZ was pretty much axed from UC continuity after A New Translation finished?

The Unicorn novels were written before the new ending for ZZ was revealed, so the ZZ elements in Unicorn are intact in the anime version. Right now ZZ's status as continuity or not is pretty nebulous, but post-Turn-A, all of Gundam continuity is kind of nebulous. The Dark History makes it completely plausible that ZZ both did and did not happen.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Bandai's logic was pretty much, "They like Gundam Wing? That show was terrible! If we show them First, it will blow their minds-- and we'll be able to sell all of our First merch to them!"

I just don't see how nobody with sufficient clout ever got through to Sunrise, "Look, American anime fans care way more about how a show looks than what the writing is like, they will never accept any series that looks dated. Just show X now and sync up the marketing in a few years."

I don't know. This was...what, 2002? I was crazy young at the time (14), but I don't think there was much in the way of rules for American anime fans that far back.

Let's be honest--Gundam got its premiere in the same block that became famous airing three series from the 80's (T-Cats, Voltron, Robotech) and a new Jonny Quest series. If they had put MSG alongside those four series, it might have made it. But waiting until after Wing, 0080, and 08th MS Team...yeesh.

In Japan generally the same sorts of fans like G Gundam and SD Gundam stuff, so this was yet another case of Bandai not realizing that the American market has its own rules.

No kidding. My mind boggles already.

It takes some jabs at fans, but... no, Frontier is really not satirical of Macross tropes. I think it meant to be a satire of the culture of recycling and pandering modern anime has fallen into. Just, the show could never make itself stop pandering in the exact same ways when it came time to promote character merchandise.

Frontier had a lot of potential, but it just needed a smarter script and better direction (outside of the mechanical sequences, which were glorious). The show also needed to commit more to Sheryl Nome as a character despite how much the Japanese fans hated her. Had they done so, Frontier I think would've been a much more successful satire.

LOL. There again, Japan differing from America. I can't imagine hating Sheryl Norme. ...I could, in episode 1, but as she developed she became one of my favorites, not just in MF but really of any anime I've ever seen.

I guess they were more in favor of Ranka?

In any case--I guess really it was less of a satire as it was an homage to the other Macross series to that point. The first song we hear Ranka sing is Minmei's My Boyfriend is a Pilot, and the tenth episode is about a movie being made based on Macross Zero. Ranka's brother was a huge fan of Fire Bomber.

The more I think about it the more I realize it was never meant to be a satire so much as it was an homage to what had been done thus far. Though there's no question that, if indeed Macross is meant to be satire, then for them to truly get into the spirit of things, Frontier should have been satirical of Macross instead of an homage.

I feel like I should note here that parody and satire are not quite the same thing. Parody is more broad and obvious, generally played for humor. A satire doesn't necessarily have to be funny. What satire is about is illustrating how a something is completely illogical, ridiculous, or otherwise just kind of a bad idea.

That said: I can actually kind of see your point with Kampfer being intended as satire of harem & battle shows. I don't think I've seen enough of the show whether to say it's a good satire or not, but it's definitely there. Anyway, you rarely hear anime forum-goers talk about shows as satirical or not unless it's very very obvious.

Well, that part's definitely true. The whole reason Kampfer isn't considered to be satirical is because it DOESN'T beat you over the head with it and its easy to slip and view it just as yet another harem/battle series.

The Unicorn novels were written before the new ending for ZZ was revealed, so the ZZ elements in Unicorn are intact in the anime version. Right now ZZ's status as continuity or not is pretty nebulous, but post-Turn-A, all of Gundam continuity is kind of nebulous. The Dark History makes it completely plausible that ZZ both did and did not happen.

Well, Turn-A's supposed to include ALL Gundam histories, isn't it? I've avoided Turn-A until I can watch the remaining TV series and get all the references, and yet that's what I hear often when Turn-A is discussed.

 

[Japanfan4ever]

Too many novels and essays be written in this thread.

 

[FlashNeko]

Too many novels and essays be written in this thread.

When you get into a discussion about the merits and quality of the shows in a franchise that is over 30 years old, and side track into other shows influenced by the original's very existence, you're going to have a lot of ground to cover. :laugh:

 

[Chronotia Archzenom]

Dang! This is a SERIOUSLY HARD POLL to choose from. I liked Gundams Orig, Z, G, X, W, SEED (and to a lesser extent SEED DESTINY due to it's plot) and OO. Man! I am confused.

 

[Sentaifan'07 Xman]

I feel your pain.

 

[Transfotaku]

The Unicorn novels were written before the new ending for ZZ was revealed, so the ZZ elements in Unicorn are intact in the anime version. Right now ZZ's status as continuity or not is pretty nebulous, but post-Turn-A, all of Gundam continuity is kind of nebulous. The Dark History makes it completely plausible that ZZ both did and did not happen.

ZZ's merchandise is cool (Qubeley is an awesome design, ZZ is pretty cool), it's in almost all the SRW games, lots of the Gundam VS games, many of the SD Gundam games, and both the Dynasty Warriors/Musou games. ZZ is pretty much canon...

...in some universe, at least. Even if it's not canon in its own native universe, ZZ is pretty much everywhere else.

Course, all those were done before the new movies, Unicorn, novels, and so on, but still. ZZ exists in offshoot universes if nothing else, just the way it did on the TV.

BTW, I know a girl from VA that's a huge fan of Gundam and Macross, and still hasn't shipped me my Gouf Ignited. You wouldn't be her, would you?


Also, Sage, you seem to be spending a lot of time in this thread taking other people's opinions on their favorite Gundam shows and forcing your opinion on them and trying to express it as fact. People like things you don't, and people like series for reasons that you don't. There is no "Right way to do Gundam" there's just Gundam tropes. Some of us like some of those tropes, some of us hate them, some of us enjoy when they're turned upside down and slapped around. You aren't them and they aren't you. Accept that, and be happy that there's a lot of Gundam fans around.

 

[Sage Shinigami]

Also, Sage, you seem to be spending a lot of time in this thread taking other people's opinions on their favorite Gundam shows and forcing your opinion on them and trying to express it as fact. People like things you don't, and people like series for reasons that you don't. There is no "Right way to do Gundam" there's just Gundam tropes. Some of us like some of those tropes, some of us hate them, some of us enjoy when they're turned upside down and slapped around. You aren't them and they aren't you. Accept that, and be happy that there's a lot of Gundam fans around.

???? You can't just come in and give me a lecture with NO reasoning behind it. No one else (...the people I actually talked to in this thread) has mentioned this. You could at least be bothered to point out an example.

Edit: Oh. You're the G Gundam's better because it doesn't do all these things signature of a Gundam series guy. Uhh...I didn't try to force you to like squat. Or did you avoid the part where I said, "If you like G that's cool?"

You put down the other series as being stereotypical even though that's really just what's signature of Gundam. If you don't like that but you like G...maybe...Gundam (other than that one series) isn't for you? That's okay, you know.

Too many novels and essays be written in this thread.

Intelligent discourse! What a thought!

 

[Lynxara]

BTW, I know a girl from VA that's a huge fan of Gundam and Macross, and still hasn't shipped me my Gouf Ignited. You wouldn't be her, would you?

Sorry, I'm not, I don't deal merchandise. I'm amused to hear that I apparently have an evil twin running around, though...

(Or maybe I'm the evil twin? It's always so hard to say.)