2012/2013 Kamen Rider - Kamen Rider Wizard... CONFIRMED.

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You can't just use Showa for your definition, the Heisei era exists and its definitions of what a kamen rider can be are just as legitimate, if not more so due to theirs being more recent.

You're basically doing the same though. You're using the definition that was used by early Heisei shows, even though the current series have changed that and have returned to a consistent concept. "Evil" Riders don't even exist anymore in the tv shows nowadays. They only appear in movies and are immediately called out on the improper use of the name.

You're stuck in the early Heisei era and doesn't seem to notice that things have changed again.
 
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No, it obviously doesn't, this isn't even up for debate, we already have riders who don't apply to that, that ARE kamen riders, whether you like it or not, thats how it is, cut and dry.
It's the original concept, the one many series afterwards (including Heisei) take on.
As I said, yes they were called Kamen Riders. But in the true name, they are not. The reason they got the name was because of Toei's new marketing methods.

So are you seriously trying to tell me that the idea of having a rider get the Kamen Rider treatment (having someone use your own powers/abilities/cyborg enhancements against you. Whether working with the main bad guys or not) Is not in the least bit intriguing, like you really don't want to see that? They've done multiple times in sentai, so why not here? And sure while the evil rangers eventually turn good, with rider they obviously decided to explore what it would be like if this character didn't turn back. I'd say that idea is interesting, and while yeah they could just give them the Shadow Moon treatment, I would say that having someone evil also referring to themselves as a Kamen rider would be more interesting.
I'm not saying we should have a bunch of Shadow Moons. All I'm saying is that every evil guy with a belt and a bike should not be called a Kamen Rider. It's wrong to do it in my point of view. It doesn't take the fun away from them, it's not like Ohja was a great character because he kept calling himself a Rider. G4 was just a villain that didn't even use the name in the movie and he was great. I could go on.

Yes, I agree that it's interesting to have an evil character call themselves that, but as I said before it would only work if the villain in question thinks they're doing the right thing (e.g. Tiger, Orga/Kaixa, Eternal, Alternative).

Your definition seems to be only shaped by showa era series, therefor your definition doesn't have any real way to make sense of hesei era riders unless they fit perfectly into your narrow definition, which plenty don't. The writers for the various hesei series have really broadened the definition of what a kamen rider can be and it has made for some wonderful stories. If you don't want to count certain characters as riders go ahead, but they're still riders and no amount of debating will change that. you're putting in a lot of effort just for the sake of being stubborn,it kinda seems like a waste.
I didn't feel like giving a recent example, because you already did with Ryuki.
Yes, in the world of Blade or Ryuki anyone that uses the system will be a Kamen Rider, because it's just a name for the system there, a meaningless title (to which the protagonist himself gives a new meaning, but that's another topic).

As I said, we are looking at the whole franchise here, and for most of it, the title is meaningful, one that is given to good guys, it's not just the name of a suit.

Again, I agree that it's interesting to have a series where they did this. In fact, I loved it, but the problem arises when all of Kamen Rider starts becoming like this. Which is not anymore, but my fears are still there.
It's unique yes, but if overdone, it's just annoying.
I loved how J grows big, because it brings something unique and new to Kamen Rider. But had we had a bunch of Rider series in the 90's where they all grow giant, my opinion would be different.

Not the best comparison, I know, but all I'm saying is, while it's very entertaining to see a couple of series give that treatment to the name, it doesn't influence the whole franchise, and the true meaning is not that.

You can't just use Showa for your definition, the Heisei era exists and its definitions of what a kamen rider can be are just as legitimate, if not more so due to theirs being more recent. The definition of kamen rider is different for many series. For some its just a name tag, for some its a legitimate career, for some its their destined path, for some its their chance to fight for justice, for some its their chance to achieve their desires, and some use it because they desire power. once again, that definition is dated and doesn't make space for the sheer variety of fun and interesting characters that all share the mantle of kamen rider.
And let me remind you, only some series in the Heisei era change the definition for Kamen Rider: Ryuki, Blade, Kabuto & Decade. The others just don't even say those two words at all.
 
Further more, let's look at ole Kuuga. The start of the new era.

The title Kamen Rider is never used by anyone in the entire run, but no one would deny that Kuuga is in fact a Rider.

And yet, he shares the powers of his foes, to the point where the only thing that separates him from them is that he is fighting to save lives, while they exist to cause needless chaos and destruction.

Of all of his villains, they all wore belts like Riders, the big bad was effectively an evil double of Ultimate Kuuga, and hell, there was a grasshopper based one that used a motorcycle!

Yet due to the titles not being used, no one ever even thinks that they might be Kamen Riders.


The same would hold true with any of the later New Era shows.

In Ryuki, if no one was called a Kamen Rider in the show, no one would think that the evil bastards who only cause more death and destruction are Kamen Riders.

Because being a Kamen Rider means more than just being a brand name.

It means being a hero, using your powers to save lives and do good things ultimately. How you do it, why, doesn't matter.

As has been said, in the few series where the title of Rider was thrown around as just what the devices turned you into, that did not truly make them Kamen Riders. Not as we know them.

No more than me legally changing my name to Superman would make me Superman. Oh sure, I'm CALLED Superman, but that doesn't mean I am Superman.



Kamen Rider has to mean more than just 'whatever'. Otherwise what's the difference between a Rider and any other Toku hero? Beyond bug eyes that not all of them share.
 
like i said before, i think the ic card only affects the rider using the belt itself, he will only have one ic card universally with another gimmick related to the number 5.

i think with this gimmick in tie in with the ganbaride game, the rider card could become stronger with the amount of experience points added into gameplay, so your rider could be stronger with every play on both ganbaride and role playing toys. plus there could be muitiple riders in the series using similar belts but different identities. in other words, any body can become the main rider in this series similar to ixa.
 
But that's not the exact point at this moment. One way you can't really compare Pre-Decade with Post-Decade and the term "Kamen Rider".

W made the term special. It was to them the name they received from the city they protected. That's why they, or well Shotaro took so great offense to what the Arms Dopant did and that Katsumi proclaimed himself a Kamen Rider in A to Z. Granted he technically were one during Eternal RETURNS.

OOO sort of went easy on the term. Not specifically mentioning it besides during the movies. "Riders gotta look out for each other".

Fourze reused the term for importance.
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Even if it's not as mentioned in that connection. And in the same scene Meteor brings up an important note regarding the name.

Not everyone shares the same meaning of Justice. Justice to one person can be evil to another. And since we usually have the heroes point of justice anything that isn't according to their justice makes them simply not a Kamen Rider.
 
While I like Ryuki, the one that still gets to me was the that the Riders fought each other for a wish, which goes against everything Kamen Rider stood for.

The Game was the "organization" and Ryuki rebelled against it. Whether or not the other Riders should have been called that is debatable, but the premise of the show itself fits with what Rider is.
 
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In Ryuki, if no one was called a Kamen Rider in the show, no one would think that the evil bastards who only cause more death and destruction are Kamen Riders.

1. You can't say that about everyone because 2. I can guarantee that if they never said Kamen Rider in the entire run of Ryuki I would've totally assumed that they were all Kamen Riders, which is great... cuz they are.

My thought process (along with plenty of others I'm sure) would go like this.
*watching Shinji transform and enter the Mirror World, when all of a sudden another guy runs up to the same spot and pulls out a deck of his own*

Me:"Whoa, who the hell is that guy?"
Well he's got a deck, he can summon a belt and transform with it too, his suit has some shared design traits with Ryuki and Knight, its probably safe to assume he uses cards also, he's just like Ryuki and Knight.

*guy transforms and enters the Mirror World, and immediately starts mutilating Ryuki*

Me: HOLY ****! Hes gonna murder the guy! Well I guess there are some of these fighters that are good guys, and some are bad guys. I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being some chaotic neutral ones too.

They don't need to be called riders as the series makes it beyond clear that they are the exact same type of warrior, with a similar design, similar powers and abilities, and is a person who transforms the same way but happens to be evil. It was obviously their goal to make sure that even though the character is evil that they would still be perceived as a Kamen Rider. Hell you could watch the show muted and without subtitles and still have that be abundantly clear.
 
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Wow, this debate reminds me of how me and my friends used to call all the mobile suits in Gundam "Gundams." A Zaku was a Gundam, a Gm was a Gundam, Big Zam was a Gundam, the Leos were Gundams.
 
The Game was the "organization" and Ryuki rebelled against it. Whether or not the other Riders should have been called that is debatable, but the premise of the show itself fits with what Rider is.

This is true.

Let's not forget, most "Riders" don't even know what the name "Kamen Rider" means, in Ryuki, it was as simple as having a belt and being able to transform and fight. That's their definition of being a "Rider", since it's what their world/story/premise is based on. Ryuki on the other hand, stood for the general sense of the name "Kamen Rider" which is the universal term for Toei's masked hero who fights for justice. So his existence pretty much legitimizes the term "Kamen Rider" for the show.
 
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