The Toku Unpopular Opinion Thread

[KingRanger]

That's more of a popular opinion. Episode 49 is pretty divisive. Even people who defend 49's events usually admit it's much less satisfying than 48, and argue that the show just needed one more episode so it could end on a two-parter.

Seems to be a popular opinion with people who just want to have some one die in a toku and stay dead. Myself.. I loved how they brought him back and that they did bring him back.

 

[lazycoconut]

I agree with a couple of points I've seen made on here before (not in this thread, but general discussion of W) :

- The enjoyment factor of W is supposed to be in watching the characters work out whodunnit, rather than guessing for yourself. If you want actual mystery, you may be disappointed

- A lot of W's popularity is likely attributable to it feeling fresh/different at the time it aired. It's different for newer fans who are coming in after 2-3 series have followed W's format

This is one of the most ignorant and sexist statements I have heard in a long time. You are saying that any story ANY STORY.. that has PEOPLE in it.. can and SHOULD have a woman in a part. That is just not true at all.

It's not true that half the population should be included in fiction? Sentai isn't a documentary about real-world all-male military units, it teaches the message that anyone can be a hero. Why shouldn't boys have media that teaches that women are their equal? What would Sentai lose by having a female AbareKiller, Black Condor, Rio, RyuuRanger?

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

I love W the plot was amazing. [..] I am loving every minute of it just as I loved every minute of W.

Mostly for my own curiosity but, I thought when Double ended, you didn't like the Wakana plot? I sorta recall you were like "The girl turning evil at the last minute was stupid, they never explained it either :shakefist!!"

 

[Black Fang]

It's not true that half the population should be included in fiction?

So women can only like media with lots of women in it? By that logic no woman could be a fan of Lawrence of Arabia, since 99% of everyone on-screen is male. That's also like saying men can't enjoy any media with a majority-female cast.

What would Sentai lose by having a female AbareKiller, Black Condor, Rio, RyuuRanger?

You want to see a woman act like Black Condor? Gai may be a fan favorite, but he's not someone to emulate, at least in the beginning.

 

[lazycoconut]

So women can only like media with lots of women in it? By that logic no woman could be a fan of Lawrence of Arabia, since 99% of everyone on-screen is male. That's also like saying men can't enjoy any media with a majority-female cast.

Well, why are female-dominated shows/movies marketed primarily to women, while male-dominated shows/movies are marketed as mainstream?

You want to see a woman act like Black Condor? Gai may be a fan favorite, but he's not someone to emulate, at least in the beginning.

I deliberately chose an example of a character type I knew Sentai wouldn't give to a woman. I'd be quite happy with no Black Condors in the franchise ever again (oh look, another unpopular opinion!)

Actually, another one of mine: I don't enjoy intra-team rivalry and conflict. Yes, every story needs conflict, but that's what the villains are for. My favourite teams are usually those where the heroes are really close and family-like with each other

 

[Ivanhobe]

I love W the plot was amazing. Kyouryu is also damn good. I am loving every minute of it just as I loved every minute of W. And honestly, I doubt you will find that many people that agree with you about W.

I like W, it is not my favorite Rider show but i would never call it a bad show, i certainly wouldn´t hesitate to recommend this show to others.

I also really like Kyoryuger, again, it is not my favorite Sentai but i am really enjoying it and i certainly like it more than shows like Gokaiger and maybe even Jetman (though i haven´t finished that one).

These two are good shows that have a lot of good things going for them, be it the characters, the settings or even the gimmicks, all i am arguing here is that the main plot for W (and to an extent Kyoryuger) was not the main driving force that kept me coming back to the show week after week; the show is good for plenty of reasons, but the main plot (the one involving Philip) is not one of them.

Now, one can argue that while the plot is an important element in Toku, it is not the only important element that makes a show enjoyable, heck, i enjoyed Go-Onger and that show has so little plot that even the villains make fun of it. But my point is, as good as it is i simply cannot say that W´s MAIN plot was the main driving force that made the show as good as it is.

I know a lot of people won´t agree with me, and i don´t expect them to, all i want is for people to at least consider that W was not a perfect show and that the main plot was probably its weakest link, and while this is my personal opinion, i feel i can safely say that Toei has produced shows with a better main plot than W before and since. For comparison, Shinkenger´s Main plot was better than W´s and generally Sentai puts more effort into its character than into the plot.

EDIT:

The enjoyment factor of W is supposed to be in watching the characters work out whodunnit, rather than guessing for yourself. If you want actual mystery, you may be disappointed

That is probably the one thing about W no one can deny; the show had a great execution of its elements, even if not all of the were great.

As i said, the weekly plot were really well done (most of the time at least), but the main reason why i am so harsh on the plot is because i like to be intrigued by a story, to want to know how it ended, and that is the one aspect W didn´t delivered for me. As you said, in W it is more fun to watch the "How" than the "What" or "Why".

 

[Kamen Rider ShinkenRed]

@Lazy Given what I know of Black Condor, I really don't get why he's popular really. (Admittedly not actually watched Jetman yet)

 

[Black Fang]

^ Wakamatsu does a good job playing the character, so that and the personal charisma he injects helps.

Well, why are female-dominated shows/movies marketed primarily to women, while male-dominated shows/movies are marketed as mainstream?

Answer the question. Are women capable of enjoying media that don't have lots of women in them, and vice versa? If the answer is yes, your issue is null and void.

I deliberately chose an example of a character type I knew Sentai wouldn't give to a woman. I'd be quite happy with no Black Condors in the franchise ever again (oh look, another unpopular opinion!)

Well they have sort of given that role to some villainesses, or at least had one episode where a villainess behaved unsavory while mingling with regular people. And even Gai reformed as the show went on.

 

[lazycoconut]

@Lazy Given what I know of Black Condor, I really don't get why he's popular really. (Admittedly not actually watched Jetman yet)

Mostly because anti-heroes are always perceived as cooler/edgier/better while conventional heroes are dismissed as "bland" ...

Answer the question. Are women capable of enjoying media that don't have lots of women in them, and vice versa? If the answer is yes, your issue is null and void.

My answer is yes. My issue is not "null and void", because women are frequently told that they SHOULD enjoy male-dominated media and expect it as the norm, with only one or two characters to represent their own gender. Men, on the other hand, can much more easily avoid media with a majority-female cast.

Also, there's a difference between adult viewers whose morality and expectations are already formed, vs kids who are still learning. I don't think it's a good idea to teach kids that women are a minority and can only fill a narrow set of roles.

Well they have sort of given that role to some villainesses, or at least had one episode where a villainess behaved unsavory while mingling with regular people. And even Gai reformed as the show went on.

I think a female Black Condor would be interesting just because it's the complete opposite of the way Sentai usually portrays its heroines. But if they deliberately set out to make such a character, she'd probably turn out like a swaggering/less ditzy Houka, and I'd be interested to see that ...

 

[KingRanger]

Mostly for my own curiosity but, I thought when Double ended, you didn't like the Wakana plot? I sorta recall you were like "The girl turning evil at the last minute was stupid, they never explained it either :shakefist!!"

Yup. And that was my only real complaint about W. And that is just a minor nitpick so I don't even worry about it. I mean I know there is this pre-ocupation with nitpicking everything in all these shows, but I try not to do that if I can. The only time I really nitpick or get upset with the shows would be like with Wizard and it's complete lack of anything.