Super Robot Red Baron - Talk ON!

[ultrakamenriderman]

After posting my thoughts on the quality of the subs for the first episode I went ahead and watched the next 2. Things do improve, I'm happy to say.

I'm liking the show so far. Great robot designs, although someone had a fascination with nipples. Also love Mari, the prettiest woman I've seen in a toku in awhile, and she kicks some mean butt too.

Okay, is it just me or do you find it as creepy as I do to hear a man's voice coming from a woman?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to watching the rest of this fun show. Any rumours about the follow-up show, Mach Baron, coming to dvd from BCI?

 

[Forever Knight]

Sheema from Changeman also had the Man's voice coming from a Woman actress which I thought was always unique and creepy.

I finished up Disc 1 and I will say I am in NO WAY dissapointed with this at all. I was comparing Red Baron to the other Official releases and I must say I rank it right up there with Kikaider and maybe even higher because of the mecha factor, I absolutely love the mecha battles.

As far as I know there is no plans for Mach Baron. August can tell you more though.

 

[August]

It's not a good sign when the second set of subs to appear have a misspelled word in it. Misspellings kept cropping up throughout the entire ep.

There is no "second set" of subtitles on RED BARON.

These were double-checked by myself and then spellchecked. So, unless you cite specifics, I can't help you -- I'm not going to sit and watch Episode 1 just to answer your question. You bring it up, you have to cite the specifics so they can be properly addressed.

Also, the timing was off on several occasions. The sub would flash off or change to the next set before I was finished reading it. Now, I'm not a super fast reader, and I'm certainly not the slowest around, but the timing needs to be better.

I only noticed one or two incidents of this, in the twenty-plus episodes I reviewed since I received my copies. Now, the company timing the subs had to work with a lot of dialogue -- most companies ask you to shorten your subs, which compromises the dialogue. Because I didn't want to compromise the dialogue, they had to shorten the timing. Either way, it's a compromise -- but you can always reverse the scene and watch it again (my DVD play will display subtitles in slow-motion and pause).

There's no perfect solution when it comes to subs, because no matter what you do, there will be someone with wet diapers.

Also, where was the option to turn off the subtitles? I don't speak japanese, but many other fans do and would probably enjoy the show more if there were no subtitles popping up.

It's on your remote. I'm not being a dick; you should have a subtitle button on your remote.

This can't be the best work BCI can offer. If they want me to continue to buy their toku releases, then these problems need to be addressed.

Do you realize that we're lucky that this show was imported and has been released in North America? How much do we want to look a gift horse in the mouth? Especially one that is 1/4 the price of the Japanese DVDs -- and is translated?

It's nitpicky complaints that make me say, "Why bother?" Because someone who does nothing is just going to complain that it's not up to his "standards." I guess we should all go back to watching HK bootlegs, which is all we had five years ago. Now, we've got five toku shows from the '70s out on DVD in the US. I never thought that would happen!

I remember the day that we watched flagging, 3-gen VHS tapes of toku, with bad audio (which gave you headaches), with no subtitles, and we were grateful. You guys are very, very fortunate -- and by the complaints, spoiled.

Go out, license your own series and sub it. Let's see how easy that is for you.

Nicely done, although there's like 2 subtitling errors in the first 5 minutes of ep01 I noticed ugh . Hope thats not common throughout.

What's that, exactly?

Before you answer that; in the REAL world, when one does subtitles, it doesn't automatically appear on the video like magic; the subtitle script goes out to the authoring house, and there could be compatibility problems with the word documents, or something happens between sending the script and rendering it. Human error. So, if there was a mistake, like a typo, that just happens sometimes -- especially when you're dealing with impending deadlines, and afforded the luxury to check and recheck. That's the reality of life, brother -- life's not perfect.

Plus, what do you want for $40? If you think it's easy, go out and do your own subtitles -- and good luck with that!

(Don't you love people who spend their time looking for mistakes? Subtitles only are supposed to tell you what the people on screen are saying -- most are not that detailed -- its not supposed to be prose. Now, while fans can splurge themselves to death with indulgent fansubs, it's really just so much masturbation.)

While it's hard to come close to the excellence of JN Productions' work on the KIKAIDA, KIKAIDA 01 and KAMEN RIDER V3 DVD releases, I don't see anyone else buying a subbing toku for the US market -- so, we should THANK BCI and, if you feel compelled, you can send them polite, constructive criticism.

But, deadlines and street dates wait for no man. So, let's enjoy what we're getting, while we're getting it, and appreciate it.

 

[August]

BTW, BCI doesn't just sit around all day and say, "We're taking our time on this stuff. Just wait." They are releasing DVDs all of the time; these four acquisitions from Senkokikaku are a drop in the bucket -- and Cliff is in charge of a lot of material. Sometimes they decide that they need to get one title out before another, so something is pushed back. That's the real world.

The next Senkokikaku releases from BCI are FIGHT! DRAGON later this year and SILVER MASK early next year. BCI is also actively looking for more toku, but the acquisition and licensing depends on the price tag from the Japanese companies. BCI is interested in MACH BARON, but it is not owned by Senkokikaku.

Meanwhile, I'm currently working with JN Productions/Generation Kikaida in prepping another '70s toku DVD release for the summer. Stay tuned...

 

[ultrakamenriderman]

August, I don't know how these disks are put together, who does the timing, typesetting, qc'ing, whatever, so I hope I didn't come across as pointing a finger at you.

In my post I specifically said that I had just watched the first episode. I apologize if I was vague with my comment of "second set of subtitles". I'm not sure how to explain it. What I was referring to was at the beginning of the show. The first subtitles to appear read "This earth of our is beautiful" On the next line of subs, which is the one I was referencing it clearly misspells Iron Alliance as Iron Allicance. There are several other instances of misspellings throughout the episode. I was not trying to nit-pick. I was trying to explain some of my frustrations with it. If I was nit-picking I would have sited every instance of misspellings, mis-timings, bad grammar, whatever.

On a follow-up post I did say that I watched the next two episodes and things do improve.

For sub-titles, I'm aware how difficult it can be to get the timing right, some people read slower than others. Subs for some people may turn off too quickly, while others may think they are on too long. I believe I am of average speed when it comes to reading and didn't expect things to change to the next line of dialogue as quickly as it did. Again, I was just trying to explain some of my frustrations with the first ep.

Thank you for pointing out the option on remotes to turn off subtitles. To be honest I wasn't aware that it was there, I'm used to seeing an option on the menu, so on that point I was wrong.

Please don't take this as an attack on you or BCI. It's not. If it came across that way then I am in the wrong and apologize. I was just pointing out some errors I found in hope that they would be corrected for future releases.

I want to buy more toku from whomever puts it out. I would love to get some early Ultraman and KR, but will check out whatever is offered. However, if a company puts out a shoddy product, then they shouldn't expect people to buy it.

 

[Forever Knight]

I remember the day that we watched flagging, 3-gen VHS tapes of toku, with bad audio (which gave you headaches), with no subtitles, and we were grateful.

I fall right in that category. Christ I remember about 10-11 years ago that was all the North American fan had. I still got my Megaranger VHS tapes from Ctenosaur on display. Ah the memories.

Anyway I got no idea what any of these people are talking about. I haven't had any problems with my subs at all.

 

[August]

I apologize if I was vague with my comment of "second set of subtitles". I'm not sure how to explain it. What I was referring to was at the beginning of the show.

The term you are at a loss for is "opening song lyrics."

There are several other instances of misspellings throughout the episode. I was not trying to nit-pick. I was trying to explain some of my frustrations with it. If I was nit-picking I would have sited every instance of misspellings, mis-timings, bad grammar, whatever.

That's not nitpicking, that's being obsessive.

Also, you close you post sighting not supporting "shoddy" product. Shoddy is a big word to be throwing around so casually. HK Boots are "shoddy," a legitimate project with a couple of typos in the subs are "human error." Especially over one line in the opening credits of the first episode, ferchrissakes. That's a bit too much to expect and too little to condemn a product for.

This is how it worked; I received timed translation scripts from BCI (who had these outsourced to a professional translation company), and I rewrote the subtitle scripts by watching the episodes.

The originals were very literal translations that didn't sound like real English, so I worked very hard, and under tight deadlines to get them in the can -- I did it to elevate the product and to keep the names of people, places and things uniform, and to try to convey the full dialogue as close to the Japanese as possible.

This was done by making all of my changes (which were extensive and substantial) in red on all of the scripts. After these were submitted, they were transcribed and typed into the generator by the authoring house. I had no control over that, nor did BCI, because of time constraints -- the product couldn't be delayed any further because of BCI's obligation to their distributors and retailers. That's just the reality, I'm sorry that it doesn't meet your idealism. The two concepts rarely meet in practice.

If one or two typos are distracting you from enjoying what's happening on screen, I don't know what to tell you -- you're missing the point and your expectations are unrealistic.

Again, if you can do a better job, on a professional product, please do so -- we need to toku releases!

 

[ultrakamenriderman]

Okay, "shoddy" was a poor choice of words, and I didn't mean to imply that BCI was currently putting out a bad product, but unfortunately it didn't come across that way. I'll be sure to choose my words more wisely next time.

As far as me being a perfectionist over a misspelled word, I'm not. I was just trying to say that it looks bad when you put in a dvd and right away there's some mistakes. I, and I'm sure others, would naturally start to worry about whether this will be a continuing problem. Fortunately it wasn't. Besides, it wasn't just one word. There were others, but there's no need to point out every one. I was frustrated at the pattern I was starting to see. When I purchase a product my expectations are a bit higher than for something I get for free. That just seems natural, right?

Moving on, thank you for your explanation on how the subtitles are done. I knew it was a lot of work but didn't realize how much actually went into it. The dialogue does come across very nicely. And I know what you mean about the Ultraman subs. I watched them first as dubs, then later as subs. It felt as though I was watching 2 different shows at times. Also, I never thought about deadlines when it came to producing dvd's.

 

[August]

Okay, "shoddy" was a poor choice of words, and I didn't mean to imply that BCI was currently putting out a bad product, but unfortunately it didn't come across that way. I'll be sure to choose my words more wisely next time.

If you're going to take someone to task about the use of words, you should watch your own ass, first.

As far as me being a perfectionist over a misspelled word, I'm not. I was just trying to say that it looks bad when you put in a dvd and right away there's some mistakes.

Bad grammar; you mean, "right away there were mistakes."

Practice what you condemn others for.

I, and I'm sure others, would naturally start to worry about whether this will be a continuing problem.

You are the ONLY person, out of dozens I have spoken to, who has brought this up. It's all you and only you.

There were others, but there's no need to point out every one.

Well, that's just a waste of time (and obsessive), shouldn't you be out enjoying life instead? It's just not healthy.

When I purchase a product my expectations are a bit higher than for something I get for free. That just seems natural, right?

That statement really pisses me off. No, that's not the way it works -- that's the way a spoiled person thinks. The air is free, product isn't free. Fans have to spend time, energy and resources in making fansubs. They aren't free -- they distro for free because they are pirating -- they don't own it, so they can't sell it.

Fansubs are done in a different manner -- people go over eveything over and over again, and make sure that everything is perfect. There are no deadlines or jobs at stake. This is a hobby, that one can obsessive over, and has nothing to do with the professional realm. Fansubbers are doing one episode every week or two, not 39 episodes in eight weeks. Okay, let's get real, you don't know what you're talking about.

Moving on, thank you for your explanation on how the subtitles are done. I knew it was a lot of work but didn't realize how much actually went into it.... Also, I never thought about deadlines when it came to producing dvd's.

That was painfully obvious. As Harlan Ellison once said, and I paraphrase, "Like assholes, everyone has an opinion. The difference is, the only opinion you're entitled to is an informed opinion."

 

[ultrakamenriderman]

Okay, I'm confused. Why does this seem to be turning into a personal attack? Let's just drop the whole thing and move onto something else.