Sell me on Kamen Rider 555

I still think the writers didn't really plan out the king orph thing enough, so they turned Kiba evil to have some one to not only kill off Kaixa, but to have a generic villain in the final few eps.

Hmm, not sure I can agree. Given Inoue's absolute love of moral relativism, I would think that depicting a "good" monster killing off a "bad" Rider was probably one of the things the series was built around. That the storyline leads to Kiba no longer being "good" would be further exploration of Inoue's beloved moral relativism, and let him do another type of plot he loves, the "sympathetic monster" story.

Basically, I think it's fine to dislike this stuff or think it didn't work, but it probably wasn't made up off the top of the writer's head. This is probably stuff that was in the original series pitch, because it really does go back to what the show is supposed to be about. I just think that the idea of a superhero show that's all about embracing moral relativism isn't a concept that aged well.

Say what you want about the way the series ends, but that will be your opinion. Fact is, the ending we got is open ended, probably one of the first (and possibly will be the only) like it we'll ever get.

I don't agree. Open endings are really, really common in Japanese writing, and quite a few tokusatsu that predate Faiz have open endings. It wasn't unheard of in Rider, either. Off the top of my head, Amazon's ending is rather open and ambivalent, as is Black's. Also, Agito ends on an open ending that's really similar to Faiz's in many ways, but arguably better-executed. A few plotlines do get close off, but a lot of big issues are left up in the air.
 
I don't agree. Open endings are really, really common in Japanese writing, and quite a few tokusatsu that predate Faiz have open endings. It wasn't unheard of in Rider, either. Off the top of my head, Amazon's ending is rather open and ambivalent, as is Black's. Also, Agito ends on an open ending that's really similar to Faiz's in many ways, but arguably better-executed. A few plotlines do get close off, but a lot of big issues are left up in the air.

Haha! you've named series' I havent seen all of yet, but didnt Black's specifically end like that because of RX? I'm just guessing on that since I've never seen any of Black or RX (And no Masked Rider doesnt count)

Also I love your new Avatar, made me smile :D
 
Excellent. :D

Black RX's status as a sequel to black is... complicated. Suffice to say that even though it uses the same character, a lot of relevant plot threads from Black are never addressed in Black RX at all. So if you just want to judge Black as a work unto itself, there's grounds for arguing for an open ending.
 
Hmm, not sure I can agree. Given Inoue's absolute love of moral relativism, I would think that depicting a "good" monster killing off a "bad" Rider was probably one of the things the series was built around. That the storyline leads to Kiba no longer being "good" would be further exploration of Inoue's beloved moral relativism, and let him do another type of plot he loves, the "sympathetic monster" story.

Basically, I think it's fine to dislike this stuff or think it didn't work, but it probably wasn't made up off the top of the writer's head. This is probably stuff that was in the original series pitch, because it really does go back to what the show is supposed to be about. I just think that the idea of a superhero show that's all about embracing moral relativism isn't a concept that aged well.



I don't agree. Open endings are really, really common in Japanese writing, and quite a few tokusatsu that predate Faiz have open endings. It wasn't unheard of in Rider, either. Off the top of my head, Amazon's ending is rather open and ambivalent, as is Black's. Also, Agito ends on an open ending that's really similar to Faiz's in many ways, but arguably better-executed. A few plotlines do get close off, but a lot of big issues are left up in the air.

If it really was planned out all from the start, that makes it even worse for me. It means they knew they were going to have a non-ending from day 1.
 
Excellent. :D

Black RX's status as a sequel to black is... complicated. Suffice to say that even though it uses the same character, a lot of relevant plot threads from Black are never addressed in Black RX at all. So if you just want to judge Black as a work unto itself, there's grounds for arguing for an open ending.

RX always seemed like a what if story to me. Like WHAT IF Black did this instead of this.
 
I would argue that neither Amazon nor Black's endings are anywhere near so open as Faiz's. And leaving a few dangling plot threads is neither uncommon nor necessary bad, as it gives the audience something to contemplate using the story that was told as a base.

The supposed sin of Faiz is in not concluding properly at all, leaving most or all of the plot threads dangling without enough of a base for reasonable extrapolation.

SPOILERS FOR THE ENDINGS OF AMAZON AND BLACK FOLLOW. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. (Some Faiz plot points may end up revealed for comparison as well)



[hide]Amazon ended with not one but two Big Bads defeated, the purpose for Amazon living in Japan exhausted, and Amazon looking to begin anew in his original jungle home using everything he had learned on his journey. That is very much a conclusion to the story that began and ended with Geddon's (which later changed into the Garanda Empire) search for the power of the Gigi Armlet. The only thing "open ended" about that story is how Amazon will spend his life afterwards which, unless the main character dies in the end, is a question left at the end of every story.

Similarly Black's story begins and ends with Gorgom's kidnapping of Kotaro and his brother. It isn't even about defending the earth or stopping Gorgom's plans. If Kotaro had faced down Shadowmoon in Birugenia's place that would have concluded Kotaro's story. But much like Amazon before it, that would have necessitated a ham-fisted relaunch that could redirect the rider's aggression towards a new goal. And that would be its own story.


Faiz, on the other hand, is a story primarily about Takumi and Mari's personal quests to find their place. The story begins with both of them wandering purposelessly, but with a burden hanging over them. In Takumi's case that's his personal nature and in Mari's its her lack of family. Over the course of the series we come to understand that their pasts are connected and their meeting in episode 1 very fortuitous, but that is only setup for what should be a greater message.

Lynxara suggests that message is about moral relativism, which I agree with completely. And I find it a damn shame that more Rider series don't explore this concept more. Kabuto in particular could have done with a bit more detail on the Worm's perspective.

But where does that leave our main characters at the end of Faiz? Takumi is still without a real sense of self, Kiba can't pick a side, Mari has even less family than before, and the principle conflict of the series is woefully unconcluded. It isn't even like the conflict is suggested to be one of those "neverending struggles" where it will outlive the characters we know and their story to tell about it is done...it isn't done. The show ends with them attempting and failing to defeat the one thing that turns the tide of battle and most of the interpersonal conflicts (contrived as they may be) left unresolved!

It's a non-ending.[/hide]
 
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Is this not a discussion board? Is the point of a discussion board not to discuss? Some series just aren't worth it. I wished I had left Go-Buster at episode 15 because the series was not worth the hours I wasted on it. I would rather inform someone to not waste their time with it rather than be disappointed with it in the end. Why watch something you are unsure about and not enjoying in an hour or two when you can use that time on something you are enjoying?

Well, everyone's opinion is different. You might hate Go-Busters, but I might love it, neither opinion is wrong. I don't see the discussion in convincing someone to watch the show, because ultimately it's their decision whether they like it or not
 
If there's no sense in trying to change others' opinions, why keep the forums up at all?

SPOILERS FOR THE ENDINGS OF AMAZON AND BLACK FOLLOW. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. (Some Faiz plot points may end up revealed for comparison as well)

Y'know, you could just say that then put everything else into [hide] tags; work the same way and be much cleaner.
 
Woah, read through all those posts to make a post... tiring, but here's my opinion if anyone wants to listen,

I think Faiz having a non ending is ok. The series ended, the story didn't. Now, the thing about Kamen Rider is, what it could actually do is instead of making a new hero every year, they could continue the series with going with Season 2s or 3s or even more, but they don't, which is why we have what we have today. Now, I assume Faiz was very popular in it's days because I remembered it being popular enough to take up all the toys section with promo vids in Thailand Department Stores. Commercials all over, different language dubbing and subs went out like mad.

Now, I think... you guys got it wrong. Cinematography is supposed to be about documenting human history, everyday life. If you are to take a piece of fiction and film it, you have to remember that setting is everything. Not just where and when, the politics, the law, the environment, culture. It's all taken into account. To say that a story having no ending isn't a story could be a valid argument, but the thing is, that's not the purpose of filming. With filming a series, you want to show just those moments that matter. Only those segments that are on screen is what the writers and directors want you to see because they are trying to tell a story from the segments, and really, what every writer wants is to essentially give off some form of moral or inspire the audience about something new.

Inui Takumi doesn't have any dreams, but he can protect other's dreams. Mari gives him that purpose, by giving him people to care about that he soon calls friends, he's not so lonely anymore.

I just think Faiz could have been a much better story if it was filmed by a sane man. The characters on it had too much problems. It was teenagers with attitudes all over the place, and each character was just psychologically fucked in the head one way or another.

The idea though, it's pretty revolutionary. Technology, human evolution, life after death, immortality. All of it's explored, and I think, I could dare say that Agito and Faiz could be compared to two things: Religion and Science. Agito used religion to tell the story about human life, and it's potential, all the while trying to accommodate modern science into it. Faiz used science as a base, with subliminal hints to religion and the Orphenoch King being this "Messiah" like figure in a really advanced futuristic human potential form.

Personally, I think a Kamen Rider story that spins misunderstandings like Faiz should be given a round of applause. Because I feel like every time Kiba and Takumi misunderstand each other, somehow, they make up in the end. They're just these two guys that understand each other, and they feel at ease when they're close to each other. They're both loners in a sense. Kiba lived a life filled with false hope before the accident, only to wake up and have his good nature be trashed at by those around him. Inui takes any insult and blame, and doesn't defend himself. They progress, from being losers to eventual saviours. People hate them, give them a hard time, but they both shared the same ideals.

It's pretty much a what if Ren and Shinji worked together to close down Mirror World for good. But then again, stories are boring if you let everyone have their happy endings, right?
 
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