Over-Time vs Tv-Nihon: Which one do you prefer?

[KouAidou]

You would rather have Heat's Jack Sparrow take on Basco than mine, I assure you. Otherwise you'll end up with him written like this:

Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.08,0:11:04.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,, Oh my, it's you again. Just lovely.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.73,0:11:05.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,, Not that {\i1}I{\i0} mind, of course.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.32,0:11:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,, Anyway. Shall we make a trade?

Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.65,0:11:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,, Bombs?!
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.79,0:11:25.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,, Yup.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.99,0:11:30.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,, I've planted them all over that lovely little school of yours.
HEAT YOU ACTUALLY USED THIS WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU

What's wrong with that, exactly? I haven't watched the most recent episode so I don't know what the lines were in Japanese, but it seems pretty appropriate to what I remember of Basco's speech pattern.

The issue with assigning a character "Jack Sparrow" as a speech pattern is that Jack Sparrow is not any kind of archetype; it's not like Robert Newton's West Country accent that has become ubiquitous as English "Piratese." Jack Sparrow is still a specific, unique character, and a bit of pop culture that a show like Gokaiger could reference but doesn't necessarily have to. Now, if it happens that you've seen Pirates in Japanese, and Basco's speech pattern is the same one that they dubbed for Jack, then that's okay -- but to assign that trait to the character without knowing for sure is just sloppy. By taking that liberty you may find later that you've ended up doing your audience a disservice (as apparently happened when Heat started doing it for Marv and then Basco showed up).

You need to remember how credulous audiences are: when Heat was translating Navi as "she," I'm sure he meant it for a bit of flavor, but you actually had people taking that as evidence that Navi was definitely, without question, female. Similarly, if you stick a Doctor Who reference in there, audiences aren't going to be able to figure out that it's just the subbers having a bit of fun. They're going to assume that the writers wrote in a Doctor Who reference which the subbers are now reflecting, and that this indicates something about Japan's or the creators' relationship to Doctor Who. Doing this misleads your audience about the show's tone, intent, and influences.

 

[KamenRiderCyber]

My take on this is simple:

I will download O-T if I see something on the boards that makes the ep a must-see; however, I won't necessarily keep it, and I'm not fond of the mkv format.

I'll concede that TV-N doesn't use colloquial English as much as I would prefer, but I do appreciate that different fonting and effects make for a better viewing experience. (Who knew that there were so many ways to illustrate the word "Henshin"?) So TV-N is usually a keeper.

My preference is for SD rather than HD and AVI instead of MKV because I'm keeping an eye on file size. This is why I'm patiently waiting for the TV-N version of LGKR and 199.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

<Jack Sparrow stuff>

I'd personally expect Machalcon to start talking like him, same seiyuu and all.

<Other stuff>

"Alright, Forever Silver!!!"

Sadly, I don't recall the exact line though so this joke's most likely gonna fall flat.

 

[Magenta]

What's wrong with that, exactly? I haven't watched the most recent episode so I don't know what the lines were in Japanese, but it seems pretty appropriate to what I remember of Basco's speech pattern.

I write him about 500 kinds of overtly homosexual. Some people seem to enjoy this but it's not really fair to the character. :V

The issue with assigning a character "Jack Sparrow" as a speech pattern is that Jack Sparrow is not any kind of archetype; it's not like Robert Newton's West Country accent that has become ubiquitous as English "Piratese." Jack Sparrow is still a specific, unique character, and a bit of pop culture that a show like Gokaiger could reference but doesn't necessarily have to. Now, if it happens that you've seen Pirates in Japanese, and Basco's speech pattern is the same one that they dubbed for Jack, then that's okay -- but to assign that trait to the character without knowing for sure is just sloppy. By taking that liberty you may find later that you've ended up doing your audience a disservice (as apparently happened when Heat started doing it for Marv and then Basco showed up).

You need to remember how credulous audiences are: when Heat was translating Navi as "she," I'm sure he meant it for a bit of flavor, but you actually had people taking that as evidence that Navi was definitely, without question, female. Similarly, if you stick a Doctor Who reference in there, audiences aren't going to be able to figure out that it's just the subbers having a bit of fun. They're going to assume that the writers wrote in a Doctor Who reference which the subbers are now reflecting, and that this indicates something about Japan's or the creators' relationship to Doctor Who. Doing this misleads your audience about the show's tone, intent, and influences.

you're going to make me play Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix again please stop

Anyway. The rational part of me says 'very valid points' - and they are, of course, and stuff we do think about. That said, we are the type to add a little extra flavor, and maybe that is a disservice, but... I'm gonna pull out the worst excuse in the book here - ultimately we're here to have fun and make this fun for the audience, even if that means we're not exactly sticking to the exact spirit of the original dialogue. These are shows aimed at 6-year-olds and we're essentially trying to make them engaging and relevant for grown adults who happen to have not grown out of liking men in spandex.

The point about misleading the audience is something where you have to walk a very fine line - are we misleading the audience by translating, say, the Go-On villain names? Weapon names? Or, like you say, Navi's gender (I had the same issue with Potpourri in HeartCatch Precure). You can't start treading on eggshells with stuff like that, either you have to take the plunge and accept there's the possibility of misleading people, or you end up stilting your stylistics or writing in order to allow your translation to encompass all possibilities.

Sometimes you just have to take a stab and say, sure, let's go for it. And I think we can perhaps get away with that more than you would be able to in a professional setting, because ultimately if we get it wrong, or make a mistake, we can just say "Well, whoops, we fucked up" or "No, no, here's how this actually works." and I don't think one needs to feel so accountable for it, you apologize, resolve, move on. Done.

I don't want to reduce my counterpoint to "People are stupid." but I don't think it's necessarily our duty to go out of our way to cater to people who will blindly take a translation that, by definition of the gap between our languages, cannot be perfect as gospel. Obviously, one enjoys informing and educating people on things, and will assist as best as possible when people have questions, but ultimately I think our number one priority should be to ensure people just enjoy the work. I don't feel bad about us adding a little spice - certainly, perhaps more than I would do so on my own, but to an extent that's just because Heat is a lot more confident and headstrong of a translator than I, and more competent at doing so fairly seamlessly.

 

[sgtkira]

My take on this is simple:

I will download O-T if I see something on the boards that makes the ep a must-see; however, I won't necessarily keep it, and I'm not fond of the mkv format.

I'll concede that TV-N doesn't use colloquial English as much as I would prefer, but I do appreciate that different fonting and effects make for a better viewing experience. (Who knew that there were so many ways to illustrate the word "Henshin"?) So TV-N is usually a keeper.

My preference is for SD rather than HD and AVI instead of MKV because I'm keeping an eye on file size. This is why I'm patiently waiting for the TV-N version of LGKR and 199.

O-T has SD AVI versions of their subs...Even for LGKR and 199...jus' sayin' :loltongue:

 

[KingRanger]

Everyone already knows what I think of how T-N has become, so I won't beat that dead horse again. That said, I love the work OT does. They work hard to translate the shows and release them with great quality.

 

[bestkept]

me? as long as I understand what the characters are talking about and gets me to absorb the story I'm fine with it.

 

[Solari]

Both groups have their own style and way of doing things.
Spotted translation errors by both groups on occasion...

Nowadays, I mostly watch raws for practice and convenience's sake, but I'll catch up on subs during the coming dec holidays.

Let's just be glad that nowadays fans have a choice, and leave it at that.

True. :thumbs:

 

[KingRanger]

Both groups have their own style and way of doing things.
Spotted translation errors by both groups on occasion...

Nowadays, I mostly watch raws for practice and convenience's sake, but I'll catch up on subs during the coming dec holidays.



True. :thumbs:

I don't agree with the "just accept what you are given" mentality.

 

[Inui Takumi]

But when its free content and you have a choice between 2 different groups the only way to show support or show what you like is by downloading it. If the groups pay attention to their stats, then they'll know if people like what their doing or not, that is if they care of course. Kinda the same mentality as voting with your wallet on certain products. But it has less effect here since its all free and voluntary.

Best way to air complaints are in forums like these. Like Magenta said, calm conversation about pros and cons are the best way to learn where groups can improve on subbing.