Ninninger or "does Toei really want to make sentai worse and worse year after year"?

[lazycoconut]

Again, that is the lazy way out for defending a show. Are you telling me that you have no expectations from any Sentai show because it is aimed for kids? Or no expectations for anything that is aimed at kids? Because if so, that is a very closed minded way of thinking. That means you are pretty much saying kids are stupid and should be treated as such.

I said nothing like that. I said that a children's show can still be well-written, creative, thoughtful, whatever, without needing to appeal to adult viewers. I think for instance that Curious George and Dinosaur Train are well-done: they can tell a good story, they're educational, they're fun without patronising the audience. But they are very clearly aimed at preschool-aged children. As an adult/teen, you might quite enjoy sitting through them with your children or little siblings, but you probably wouldn't choose to watch them on your own.

 

[Dr Kain]

Okay, but my question was, what are YOUR expectations of Sentai? What do YOU want to see done in Ninninger? What is working for YOU? What isn't?

 

[Prinoftherng]

Okay, but my question was, what are YOUR expectations of Sentai? What do YOU want to see done in Ninninger? What is working for YOU? What isn't?

I can kind of see where the both of you (you and the guy you're replying to) are getting from: him from having a kid show being really interesting and stuff, and with you from having certain expectations and stuff. Expectations and writing are the biggest influences for me to decide whether I stay to the show or not. Even though ToQger kinda slugged in the middle, what kept me in was the villains and hikari. Those two things were really interesting and the reason why I could relate to it (hikari being the loner and the common sense no nonsense guy and the villains giving me a reason to care about them). Ninninger, from what I've seen which is only 10 episodes (and even then, that's plenty of time to get me drawn into a sentai), and I stopped there because the show literally gave me no reason to care about anything. Yeah kasumi is the best character in the show, but that's not really saying much, she doesn't really stand out to me. The other characters are either annoying (taka and Kinji), boring (yakumo), or just plain bland (fuuka and nagi). The villains didn't impact me at all as they were just there just for the sake of having a villain. Especially since the neo-heisei sentais haven't really been good and the premise for ninninger was interesting, the execution of the start really turned me off from it and for that, makes it boring for me. Usually I give it about 3 episodes to decide whether I stick to it or quit and quite frankly, I wanted to quit there, but since it was a sentai, I wanted to give it a chance and survive a little longer, and holy lord, You don't know how much I wanted to quit.

TL;DR: If the beginning of the show doesn't have anything interesting to show me or has some pretty stupid or asinine ideas (such as the starninger's selfie) that make me cringe while watching it, then my incentive of watching the series drops down to 0 and I just stop watching it. Yeah ToQger had toQboner, but that was once and never shown again. The selfie happened at least 3 times before quitting the show.

 

[live jetabare]

I think that an issue which plagues a lot recent sentai is that the "toy commercial" aspect of the show has overtaken everything else, and that Toei and its staff doesn't seem to care anymore.
However, a show can be a great toy commercial without having to overdo it. Series like Megaranger, GogoV were successful, but also had good characters and stories and are very good sentai series. Even a show using a classic popular toy theme, such as dinosaurs, like my personal favorite, Abaranger (though I admit that this one can be divisive for fans), can show some originality in the way it is written. And its successor, Dekaranger, which is one of the most popular sentai of all time (the fact it has a 10 years after is proof enough), also was remarkably original and daring in its choice. All the shows I've mentioned promote toys, and were successful in their toy lines, but were also compelling shows with good characters, originality, and interesting stories. They were toy commercials, but they tried to go beyond that.
Now, it's like Toei isn't trying any more.

 

[Captain Shark]

Are you telling me that you have no expectations from any Sentai show because it is aimed for kids? Or no expectations for anything that is aimed at kids? Because if so, that is a very closed minded way of thinking.

That is as open minded as someone could be, expectations are what narrow thinking.

That means you are pretty much saying kids are stupid and should be treated as such.

Have you interacted with children under 13? The vast majority of them will pretty much watch and accept anything.

I hate when people use the "it's just the kids show. Leave it alone" excuse because it doesn't work.

It works for me just fine as long as they don't screw up logic an elementary school kid can call garbage on.

it also doesn't mean that a children's show must appeal to older viewers if it's to be "good."

I like this quote! It is like someone found out that main audiences for kid shows are *gasp* NOT adults!

But out of almost all Sentai I've watched, I don't think any season hit any lower point.

Let me know when you've seen Goranger, JAKQ, Battle Fever J, Sun Vulcan, Flashman, Liveman, or Turboranger because Gogglve-V is one of the better ones I've seen- Wait a second.

Goggle V came after 5 simply amazing series, including Sun Vulcan

Never mind.

 

[lazycoconut]

Okay, but my question was, what are YOUR expectations of Sentai? What do YOU want to see done in Ninninger? What is working for YOU? What isn't?

My expectations of Sentai as a whole? That's a big question ...

What I want Ninninger to do: Use the supporting characters more, including Dad and Grandpa. Give more focus to Rangers other than Takaharu, and their personal relationships (e.g. why are Kasumi and Yakumo closer to each other than to any of the rest? Nagi and Kinji have begun a friendship, can we see more of that?) More tension between the villains - we have potential for an interesting setup, with Masakage being aware that Kyuemon is not who they say they are, and Kyuemon resenting Ariake. Use individual episodes to lay the groundwork of the overarching plot better. Have Kibaoni bring something substantial to the table and be worthy of the lead-up he's got.

What's working for me: I like the Rangers. I enjoy the team's bond: they feel like a family, and while they're not quite as tight as past family teams, there's a good in-story reason for that. It's nice to see the show acknowledge that family life isn't always ideal and that not everyone has a "traditional" nuclear family. Kyuemon is fun and could become a good villain. The female Rangers are both smart, capable, and have ambitions not involving marriage or idol singing. The show can do character focus episodes well: ep5 for Kasumi, and ep16 for Takaharu/Fuuka's dad come to mind. I like the situation with Kinji and his dilemma that while the Ninningers accept him, Grandpa won't (and the show hasn't just gone the easy Magiranger route of having him romance one of the girls so he can join the family.) I enjoy the overall aesthetic, and the soundtrack's influences of traditional music. Villains are refreshingly devoid of the soap-opera drama that dominated ToQger's villain plot.

What's not working for me: Way too much Takaharu focus. While I don't think he's as bad as Daigo, I'm still not a fan of Red-centric shows. In particular I wish that the show wouldn't have Takaharu take over the spotlight even during what's supposed to be someone else's episode. Nagi and Fuuka are particularly neglected to the point where removing Nagi from the show would change very little. The show has a disjointed feel and individual episodes often give the impression that they are not really doing anything to advance the plot. Kyuemon is the only one of the villains who currently feels like a threat. I don't like the design of the power-up. Grandpa dropping in to give cryptic information can become annoying and it's frustrating that no one really questions his motives - not even Kasumi, not even Kinji who knows that what Kyuemon says about Grandpa's refusal to invest in anyone that's not part of his family is true.

(Usual disclaimer; all the above is subjective, my opinion does not represent that of Toei or the target audience, nor is it necessarily what's going to sell toys to small Japanese children, etc. etc.)

 

[Dr Kain]

Thank you Lazy and fair enough on your points. I do disagree with you on the villains as I like my villains developed almost as much of the rangers, if not equally, but I totally respect what you have just told me. :thumbs:

Have you interacted with children under 13? The vast majority of them will pretty much watch and accept anything.

Seeing as how I am an elementary school teacher, yes, I interact with children under 13 all of the time and I can tell you that they will NOT watch and accept anything.

I like this quote! It is like someone found out that main audiences for kid shows are *gasp* NOT adults!

That isn't my question.

Let me know when you've seen Goranger, JAKQ, Battle Fever J, Sun Vulcan, Flashman, Liveman, or Turboranger because Gogglve-V is one of the better ones I've seen- Wait a second.

Never mind.

I have seen Liveman and Turboranger in their entirety. I have seen episodes to all of the others sans Battle Fever J (I own the first 20 episodes of Flashman on Region 2 DVDs).

 

[Amon]

Have you interacted with children under 13? The vast majority of them will pretty much watch and accept anything.

Not always true. When I was a kid, I never liked every show I watched CN, Nick, Fox Kids, KidsWB!, Toon Dinsey and Sci-Fi. If a show I didn't like was on, I turn off to do something else to pass off time or watch it if I had nothing else to do. I never like Captain Planet, Clarissa Explains It All or Bobby's World as a kid, so I would change the channel when it was on. I also hated As Told by Ginger, Mike, Lu & Og, Robot Jones and Butt-Ugly Martians too. When those shows where on, I would quickly change the channel.

This is a children show. Over analyzing it is not children's thing. Leave it be, you horde of balding men!

Not sure if you're joking or not. Being a kids show is not really a excuse for anything. Kids anime like Dragon Ball, One Piece, Doraemon, PreCure and Detective Conan all air on Sunday mornings like Kamen Rider and Sentai and market to the same age group in Japan, yet they have good story telling too.

 

[TheLastBlade]

I think even 6 years olds would provide a thing called "questions."

 

[Black Fang]

I also hated As Told by Ginger

Good man.