Ninninger or "does Toei really want to make sentai worse and worse year after year"?

[kuroihikari]

There is absolutely no problem with creating a talented person that stands out. That's what I'm saying.

 

[lazycoconut]

Per se, there's not. But the existence of a "talented person" doesn't negate the need for the characters to serve the story - not the other way around.

 

[Prinoftherng]

Per se, there's not. But the existence of a "talented person" doesn't negate the need for the characters to serve the story - not the other way around.

Now if It got to that point, then the other characters would literally have no reason to be in the story
Its also why I didnt enjoy kyoryuger; the characters werent really characters, but rather plot devices that lost point to them near the end

 

[kuroihikari]

Per se, there's not. But the existence of a "talented person" doesn't negate the need for the characters to serve the story - not the other way around.

Aside from the fact that that's fundamentally wrong (It's entirely okay for the story to serve the characters), the characters in Kyoryuger actually served the story. Not in equal magnitudes, but it was there.

Now if It got to that point, then the other characters would literally have no reason to be in the story
Its also why I didnt enjoy kyoryuger; the characters werent really characters, but rather plot devices that lost point to them near the end

Well, it's good then that all the characters in Kyoryuger drove the plot. Not this bogus claim that they just were plot devices.

 

[lazycoconut]

Aside from the fact that that's fundamentally wrong (It's entirely okay for the story to serve the characters), the characters in Kyoryuger actually served the story. Not in equal magnitudes, but it was there.

Putting aside the question of whether it's "fundamentally wrong", which it isn't (writing story to serve characters rarely works unless you're Luigi Pirandello ... and if you are, you still shouldn't be doing it, because you are dead ...) Sentai is about a team that is equal. Not a team where everyone works together to help a "talented person" shine. That kind of team, if you want to call it such, is better suited to Kamen Rider which is designed around a lone hero.

Going back to the main subject of this thread, that's why I enjoy Ninninger more than Kyoryuger, and even more so than Shinkenger. The other Ninningers may get less focus but they aren't cogs in the wheel, who can hope for nothing better than to help the shining star chosen by fate ascend to greatness

 

[Black Fang]

How did Shinkenger overshadow anyone, though? Just because Takeru is the lord and the others retainers? If that's your argument, I'd say Ninninger is worse since there is no real reason for Taka to get all the focus beyond the writers' desire.

 

[lazycoconut]

How did Shinkenger overshadow anyone, though? Just because Takeru is the lord and the others retainers? If that's your argument, I'd say Ninninger is worse since there is no real reason for Taka to get all the focus beyond the writers' desire.

I meant I found Shinkenger similar to Kyoryuger in that a lot of the story was built around the hero being chosen by destiny and the others basically being support staff to help him achieve that destiny (whereas nothing in Ninninger's plot inherently requires that Takaharu must be the one to be chosen as Last Ninja.) But no, I concede the point, you're quite right

But despite Shinkenger being very Red-centric, people liked Takeru. If Kasumi got the amount of screen time and focus that Takaharu does, Ninninger would be better received. I think the dislike for Takaharu, and Daigo, is less about "the fans are jealous of this person for being talented!" and more about what kind of character they are.

 

[Prinoftherng]

I meant I found Shinkenger similar to Kyoryuger in that a lot of the story was built around the hero being chosen by destiny and the others basically being support staff to help him achieve that destiny (whereas nothing in Ninninger's plot inherently requires that Takaharu must be the one to be chosen as Last Ninja.) But no, I concede the point, you're quite right

But despite Shinkenger being very Red-centric, people liked Takeru. If Kasumi got the amount of screen time and focus that Takaharu does, Ninninger would be better received. I think the dislike for Takaharu, and Daigo, is less about "the fans are jealous of this person for being talented!" and more about what kind of character they are.

The thing is...takeru was a lord who was destined to be lord as from a generation to generation standpoint, so he had a reason to be somewhat important. Even the other four were destined to join the army and follow the lord. Not to mention the fact that takeru admitted that he had flaws and had to rely on the others for help, even when he said he didnt need any.

King on the other hand, was chosen at random to be leader and everyone else just randomly followed him. He was automatically made leader and automatically made perfect, even to the point where the others said that they needed him to even have the confidence to fight the enemies. Also, king had no flaws in the show or technical standpoint, even when kyoryu grey told him that his biggest flaw was that he was perfect, he shortly brushed that off. King always told the team that they were a sentai, even after he get his powerup, making him come off as very pretentious.

 

[PowerPhantom245]

King on the other hand, was chosen at random to be leader and everyone else just randomly followed him. He was automatically made leader and automatically made perfect, even to the point where the others said that they needed him to even have the confidence to fight the enemies. Also, king had no flaws in the show or technical standpoint, even when kyoryu grey told him that his biggest flaw was that he was perfect, he shortly brushed that off. King always told the team that they were a sentai, even after he get his powerup, making him come off as very pretentious.

...in other word, King sucks (hard!).
It's one of the reasons why I think King is not only one of the worst Red Rangers, but worst rangers in sentai franchise.
I don't watch so many Japanese kid shows these days, but is this type of hero/leaders kids look up these days?
If Takaharu is any indication, then it's just kind of sad IMO.

 

[lazycoconut]

The thing is...takeru was a lord who was destined to be lord as from a generation to generation standpoint, so he had a reason to be somewhat important. Even the other four were destined to join the army and follow the lord. Not to mention the fact that takeru admitted that he had flaws and had to rely on the others for help, even when he said he didnt need any.

King on the other hand, was chosen at random to be leader and everyone else just randomly followed him. He was automatically made leader and automatically made perfect, even to the point where the others said that they needed him to even have the confidence to fight the enemies. Also, king had no flaws in the show or technical standpoint, even when kyoryu grey told him that his biggest flaw was that he was perfect, he shortly brushed that off. King always told the team that they were a sentai, even after he get his powerup, making him come off as very pretentious.

I was referring to the element of "He's the hero because destiny says so?" Like, Daigo was chosen by the earth to be its king. Takaharu was supposedly destined to be the head of the Shiba clan (and sure enough, when the real head comes back, she quickly abdicates in favour of Takeru because she's not strong enough to defeat Doukoku herself.) A similar example would be Zyuranger where Red is the Prince of an ancient tribe and all the others are Knights (and a Princess, but she still ranks lower than him), making them his subordinates. I agree with you that I prefer Shinkenger's execution of it over Kyoryuger's, though.