Ninninger or "does Toei really want to make sentai worse and worse year after year"?

I liked him when he wasn't a god
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And all of that happened in Kyoryuger. Everyone had their own hurdes and Daigo didn't have a superiority complex nor tried to accomplish everything on his own.

This is why I see all this Kyoryuger hate as highy irrational.

He didn't, no, and I never said he did. I did explain why I feel that a Sentai team should receive relatively equal attention/focus rather than making one character the "star"; and why I think that shows like Kyoryuger and Ninninger give a message that isn't helpful to children.

Although my point still stands: If a character like Kasumi got the same level of attention, focus and importance that Takaharu and Daigo do, Ninninger would be a much more well liked show. People have no problem with the show being dominated by one character when it's someone they like (such as Takeru Shiba or Gai Yuki.) I don't think it is the disproportionate character focus in itself that is the "problem"
 
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And that aligns exactly with my point. It's the irrational hate for one character that drives most people to dislike Kyoryu and Ninnin.

I'd very much like for Kasumi to get double focus than what she has now, but I know for a fact that Sentai is generally red-centric. So if I'm gonna complain about Takaharu, I'd pretty much have to apply the same criticism to every Sentai.
 
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And that aligns exactly with my point. It's the irrational hate for one character that drives most people to dislike Kyoryu and Ninnin.

I'd very much like for Kasumi to get double focus than what she has now, but I know for a fact that Sentai is generally red-centric. So if I'm gonna complain about Takaharu, I'd pretty much have to apply the same criticism to every Sentai.

Seriously? What the hell are you talking about? A character can literally make or break a show in terms of making someone a role model. Kings perfectness and pretentiousness is really unrealistic. You cant teach kids that a leader of a group is literally the most perfect person ever and that no matter what mistakes they make, you dont treat them as if they never made that mistake in the first place. About your second point, that point doesnt even work as most sentai literally dont have red-centric plots that go overboard. Dekaranger didnt do that, jetman didnt, liveman didnt, shinkenger didnt do it that blatantly bad, and gokaiger didnt do that. Not even magiranger did that as bad as ninninger or kyoryuger. And no....sentai shouldnt always be a completely red-centric sentai otherwise they may as well convert it into a kamen rider. Few sentai do the red-centric idea well, and even then, they dont put the ENTIRE FOCUS ON RED. Why? Because they realize that the other members matter in the end as well. So why bother making the other character completely bland and useless just for the sake of making red look good and/or being better than everyone else? Like ive said before, its unrealistic to think or assume that.
 
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Seriously? What the hell are you talking about? A character can literally make or break a show in terms of making someone a role model.

Yes, and Daigo wasn't a bad role model.

Seriously? What the hell are you talking about? A character can literally make or break a show in terms of making someone a role model. Kings perfectness and pretentiousness is really unrealistic.

Daigo is better than anyone at most things, and is nice to everyone. King is not perfect, not pretentious nor unrealistic. See the irrational, unsupported hate seething out.

You cant teach kids that a leader of a group is literally the most perfect person ever and that no matter what mistakes they make, you dont treat them as if they never made that mistake in the first place.

I'm glad Kyoryuger didn't teach any of that. And all Sentai let other people's mistakes go easily. It happens a lot. To pretend they don't is ridiculous. It's not like Daigo did anything like trying to kill them.

Again, picking on Daigo because OMG he's so perfect reeks of talent-envy and nothing actually real to me.

About your second point, that point doesnt even work as most sentai literally dont have red-centric plots that go overboard. Dekaranger didnt do that, jetman didnt, liveman didnt, shinkenger didnt do it that blatantly bad, and gokaiger didnt do that. Not even magiranger did that as bad as ninninger or kyoryuger.

Kyoryuger didn't go overboard. You just think it did because you hate Daigo.

See how you put in "blatantly bad" for Shinkenger? Because Takeru is so much more central to Shinkenger's plot than Daigo is to Kyoryuger. But you'll be nice to Shinkenger because Takeru's fine but Daigo doesn't get a pass because he's "Too perfect."

God, "too perfect", I can't get over how much insecurity seeps out from that phrase. For one, it's syntactically wrong. "Perfect" is an absolute. There's no such thing as "too perfect". Either it's perfect or it's not.

And no....sentai shouldnt always be a completely red-centric sentai otherwise they may as well convert it into a kamen rider. Few sentai do the red-centric idea well, and even then, they dont put the ENTIRE FOCUS ON RED. Why? Because they realize that the other members matter in the end as well. So why bother making the other character completely bland and useless just for the sake of making red look good and/or being better than everyone else? Like ive said before, its unrealistic to think or assume that.

Well, I'm glad the other characters actually mattered in Kyoryuger, then. And aren't bland nor useless. Nobu and Amy are my favorite characters, not King, and I just don't imagine how the plot would've worked without those two.
 
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Kings perfectness and pretentiousness is really unrealistic.
Are we really playing the "realistic" card in a show about a group of teenagers and ghosts harnessing the power of samba-dancing robot dinosaurs under the tutelage of a big blue bird in order to fight the armies of an alien moth monster? I'm not sure what part of that setup suggests the characters will act in any kind of rational manner. :laugh:

Reds carry most of the weight of selling the toys to kids, and therefore tend to to act in a way that Bandai thinks will appeal to them. Usually by making them seem like they're a really fun kid that the tiny viewers would want to be friends with. They're not there to seem like real people they have to be better than real. More fun more exciting more cool. Everything else will come second to that. I'm not saying that's good, just that it seems to be the way it is.
Dekaranger didnt do that, jetman didnt, liveman didnt, shinkenger didnt do it that blatantly bad, and gokaiger didnt do that.
I'll have to disagree with Jetman. The entire story is really about Red Hawk - mainly how events affect his mental health as he slowly spirals down to a breakdown and fights his way back enough to be the big damn hero needed to save the world (even Gai admits they don't stand a chance of winning without him). Yes, in a series containing possibly the most charismatic actor Sentai's ever had, the most important part ended up going to an actor with all the charisma of a shoe and as a result the main character constantly gets eclipsed. But that doesn't change that on paper the show is meant to be all about him.
 
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Are we really playing the "realistic" card in a show about a group of teenagers and ghosts harnessing the power of samba-dancing robot dinosaurs under the tutelage of a big blue bird in order to fight the armies of an alien moth monster? I'm not sure what part of that setup suggests the characters will act in any kind of rational manner. :laugh:

Reds carry most of the weight of selling the toys to kids, and therefore tend to to act in a way that Bandai thinks will appeal to them. Usually by making them seem like they're a really fun kid that the tiny viewers would want to be friends with. They're not there to seem like real people they have to be better than real. More fun more exciting more cool. Everything else will come second to that. I'm not saying that's good, just that it seems to be the way it is.
I'll have to disagree with Jetman. The entire story is really about Red Hawk - mainly how events affect his mental health as he slowly spirals down to a breakdown and fights his way back enough to be the big damn hero needed to save the world (even Gai admits they don't stand a chance of winning without him). Yes, in a series containing possibly the most charismatic actor Sentai's ever had, the most important part ended up going to an actor with all the charisma of a shoe and as a result the main character constantly gets eclipsed. But that doesn't change that on paper the show is meant to be all about him.

I can agree with you with the jetman point, with the fact that red was a major part of the story, but at least each of the others could manage on their own and yes, they did need ryu when things got really really tough, even with the point when they were feeling hopeless, but remember, that was from the stronger enemies. The kyoryugers felt hopeless, literally when they were fighting mooks. This wasnt only as the beginning either, it also happened near the middle and end as well.
Also....red is the leader and therefore, is the representative of the sentai, but you cant act as if the other members are just there to be armaments for red or backups for red. They also have to be just as important. Also, never assume that people always look up to red. Looking back, magiranger was an example of a sentai that I couldnt stand or respect red at all. He was way too annoying and unlikeable for me.I ended up respected green and yellow more because I thought they were overall better than magired. So yeah, red is the representative, but dont brush off the others as if they cant do anything on their own. It makes them useless and makes it feel like it should've been a kamen rider instead
 
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Everyone among the Kyoryuger could handle enemies on their own. At least until the enemies got upgraded. Everyone of them actually DID go one-on-one with generals, and the entire finale was some of them going one-on-one with a general. That's why the tagline ("History's Strongest"), actually was VERY valid.

I wish people would actually watch shows instead of making baseless criticisms. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the show. Just like your random criticisms of Ninninger based on other people's (some of whom don't even actually try to understand the show) criticisms.

I can understand people hating on Kyoryuger because it's too kiddy, or it's too silly (because it was, not that it was a bad thing), but man the random things people will make up just to hate on it never cease to astound me.
 
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Before I shift this post to being about, you know, Ninninger, the Sentai with the name in the thread title, I will chime in my 2 cents about Daigo.

I didn't dislike Daigo because he was "pretentious" (because being pretentious would actually be a character flaw) or "too" perfect. I didn't like him because he was boring in his flawlessness. Out of all the story arcs the Kyoryugers had in the show, I thought his (and Amy's) were the least interesting, namely because Daigo never really grew as a character. And why would he have to grow, he's already as great as the show wants him to be. I believe flawless characters are just boring. They don't have any problems to overcome because they face everything with a smile, have everything they already want, and there's never any doubt they won't win.

Now, allow me to explain why this means Takaharu is an even WORSE character than Daigo. At least with Daigo, I could (begrudgingly) buy him being the bestest guy ever because the show goes out of its way to show us repeatedly that he's great at everything he does. The show even blatantly goes out of its way to tell us he's perfect while he's training. With Takaharu, we are only TOLD he's great at everything he does. The other characters point out his flaws, but there's never an attempt to prove on them. He's stupid and reckless, but it's okay for him to be stupid because...reasons? Hell, early on, we see him struggling to master the ninja arts. Then a few episodes later, not-Juuzou for some reason believes Takaharu is the only one who can beat him. And he's right, even though at that point, Takaharu was one of the weakest ninjas except for his pure tenaciousness....or something. And then Takaharu proceeds to beat him by himself, something the show has decided its okay for him to do repeatedly.

Daigo is also simply charismatic. Ryo Ryusei pulled off the role really well and he was honestly given much more substantial stuff to work with. I didn't like the material personally, but compared to Ninninger, it's downright inspiring. Now, Takaharu's actor, Shunsuke Nishikawa, is having BIG difficulties pulling this off (and we're halfway through the series at this point, so it's now certainly a lost cause) because it's clear he's not as comfortable working with this kind of material. The material itself isn't that great (his try-hard catchphrases, the goofy dialogue) to boot.

TL;DR Kyoryuger earned it, although I didn't care for it because I don't like that type of storytelling. Ninninger hasn't, which arguably makes it even worse.
 
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I really don't think Daigo is flawless. It's just that his teammates cover up really well for whatever flaws he has, and the show went way too subtle on that point. He's basically an idiot with good instinct, who's way too free-spirited. Ian gives the team smarts, Souji gives a calm perspective, while Nobu grounds the team. Amy, on the other hand, is basically someone who wanted to be someone like Daigo but wasn't allowed to be, and I think she's meant to show what Daigo's growth would've been.

That's why when I look at Kyoryuger that way, and people tell me everyone else in Kyoryuger is useless, I don't really understand it.

My problem with Takaharu is more the portrayal than anything about the character. Most of his scenes just fall flat.

The one the other team members actually think is the best ninja is Kasumi, Takaharu is just simply he strongest. The way I see it, it's okay for him to reckless, because his cousins bail him out. They're family after all. After the Gabi Raizou arcs, he hasn't done anything particular that was reckless (the only time was going back in time to save Fuuka, and that was understandable).
 
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Everyone among the Kyoryuger could handle enemies on their own. At least until the enemies got upgraded. Everyone of them actually DID go one-on-one with generals, and the entire finale was some of them going one-on-one with a general. That's why the tagline ("History's Strongest"), actually was VERY valid.

I wish people would actually watch shows instead of making baseless criticisms. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the show. Just like your random criticisms of Ninninger based on other people's (some of whom don't even actually try to understand the show) criticisms.

I can understand people hating on Kyoryuger because it's too kiddy, or it's too silly (because it was, not that it was a bad thing), but man the random things people will make up just to hate on it never cease to astound me.

You know? Talking to you is like talking to a donkey; I can never get my opinion or points across to you. How can you assume that I havent watched kyoryuger, when it was the first sentai ive followed on a week to week basis? It also hurts your point when im talking about my opinions about whats wrong about kyoryuger, and youre like "oh this show aint bad. You just havent watched it hur hur hur." Seriously having that mindset about kyoryuger and getting on me because I dont agree with your points really makes come off as a REALLY CLOSE-MINDED PERSON. Also, ive seen snippets of each of ninninger episodes to get the gist of the episodes and yes, my opinions about ninninger still stands. Same with kyoryuger
 
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