Kamen Rider Gaim Ep 23 - "Now Let's Go! Kachidoki Arms!"

I gotta disagree with you cannibals. The whole Sagara and Kouta interaction leading up to Kouta getting Kachidoki, is one of the strongest moments in the series thus far. And so little of it is actually about what's being said or done. The importance lies so much more in the subtext. The implications along with the questions being raised about Sagara's intentions are what make that scene amazing. It seems like you're only taking things at face value without taking time to appreciate all of the subtext. Seems like a waste considering how good this series is.
Subtext so subtle, they underlined the themes of the show and what role the narrative chose Kouta to have.

And don't know about you, but "DJ Sagara is pretty weird" is not much of a subtext if its already obvious several episodes ago. Back when Kouta gained Lemon Energy.
I.E. the other episodes where the main character just gets handed a new upgrade like candy.
 
Subtext so subtle, they underlined the themes of the show and what role the narrative chose Kouta to have.

And don't know about you, but "DJ Sagara is pretty weird" is not much of a subtext if its already obvious several episodes ago. Back when Kouta gained Lemon Energy.
I.E. the other episodes where the main character just gets handed a new upgrade like candy.

Honestly, I can already see where this is going, and I'm out. Good to know that it didn't take long for HJU to get a replacement Kingranger.
abandon.gif
 
Honestly, I can already see where this is going, and I'm out. Good to know that it didn't take long for HJU to get a replacement Kingranger.

... You know, usually people deal with dissidents by just screaming at them.

I dunno, this thinly-veiled insult probably works better to someone who knows who the hell is KingRanger
 
Last edited:
Problem is, this isn't written well at all. This doesn't come across as something the character himself realizes, so much as he is a pawn that the narrative has a set role for.
Everything here comes from either really vague implication or just outright spelling it out through exposition.

Yes, but what elevates Koyomi from Yuuya is that atleast we actually had something for Koyomi. More than Yuuya that is. Whatever failings Wizard had with Koyomi, its a way more bigger failing to not even bother and just render the whole situation with Yuuya as a BIG SHOCKING SOULCRUSHING REVEAL for Kouta to feel sad about for 15 minutes. He's a story device, not a character, and its so blatant about it.

Yuuya was just used as yet another piece in the conflict between the beliefs in play here. Kouta's claim that he'd protect everyone without sacrifices, only to learn that he had made one and his battle had been a lie. That leads to Kouta believing for a moment that Yggdrazil might be right and there's no way to win, only for Sagara to appear and reveal that even Yggdrazil doesn't know everything, and that there's a chance he could still save everybody, he just had to play outside of their rules. I guess you consider that exposition, but I don't see how it was out of place or unfitting. Why is Sagara explaining the situation to someone he seems to have found reliable a problem with the narrative? It's only problematic if you believe that Yuuya was supposed to be the center of the drama, since he's sidelined by this development, but that clearly wasn't the case.

And, yes, that means he wasn't much of a character. However, he received screentime appropriate to that. It was clear that they hadn't forgotten him, but they didn't make the viewer suffer through angst exclusively focused on a character that the viewer would have little chance to really care about. When it came about, it was only a part of bigger elements of the show. You seem to complain about what the show isn't doing, rather than what it actually chose to be its focus.

Yes, but what elevates Koyomi from Yuuya is that atleast we actually had something for Koyomi. More than Yuuya that is. Whatever failings Wizard had with Koyomi, its a way more bigger failing to not even bother and just render the whole situation with Yuuya as a BIG SHOCKING SOULCRUSHING REVEAL for Kouta to feel sad about for 15 minutes. He's a story device, not a character, and its so blatant about it.

We knew about her, but it's clear that most viewers couldn't care about her in spite of that. So, all the focus and screentime given for her drama, which wasn't only done to inform the viewers, but also feel it, ends up feeling like a waste.
 
Last edited:
... You know, usually people deal with dissidents by just screaming at them.

I dunno, this thinly-veiled insult probably works better to someone who knows who the hell is KingRanger

Honestly, your reply was utterly incoherent. I'll explain:

Subtext so subtle, they underlined the themes of the show and what role the narrative chose Kouta to have.

And don't know about you, but "DJ Sagara is pretty weird" is not much of a subtext if its already obvious several episodes ago. Back when Kouta gained Lemon Energy.
I.E. the other episodes where the main character just gets handed a new upgrade like candy.

1. Apparently, you're assuming that the subtext is "DJ Sagara is pretty weird". That's definitely not the subtext LazerWolfX was talking about, and thus using it as a reply to his argument seems terribly out of place.
2. Neither the subtext is "DJ Sagara is pretty weird" nor what LazerWolf thinks the subtext is, "underline the themes of the show," at least basing on your example of underlining a couple of posts back. Or rather, you'd have to explain how it does, because right now, I don't see how you can. The subtext of Sagara's identity has very little to do with Kouta choosing his path.

==================

Speaking of "underlining" and narrative demanding something: This is a merchandise driven show, and thus there are things that just have to be there, and thus for the narrative to demand something that corresponds to it.

Writing the story in order to make meeting those demands actually underline the themes of the show well is a VERY good thing.

Also, for not a few people, taking the path that is opens up to you when faced with a dilemma is not a far-fetched possibility. It's actually usually one of the better choices.
 
But this is less "listening to other people's opinions" and more "you should do this becase story themes demands it, don't be sad anymore".

Kouta doesn't resolve anything, he has someone else to do it for him. Specifically, the narrative.

You say that the story is rushing through the paces and is forcing its way to finish the plots. I feel differently, and I think the story spent just enough time on that particular plot point, and wrapped it up as much as is sufficient, while opening up other plot points. Really, the story, is far from over.

Talking about that scene, a part of the story there is that it is indeed "Sagara driving Kouta back into the fight, when he was about ready to drop out". It's not unreasonable to say that Sagara was forcing a view on to Kouta, and gave him the tools to move forward with it. For his own ends and agenda, whether it be benevolent and malevolent. The music, and the atmosphere of the scene, was actually really grim and foreboding, all pointing to the fact that, in a way, the "upgrade" isn't really a good thing to happen. The story arc of Kouta's struggling with his dilemma may have ended, but it opened up questions and mysteries of Sagara's identity, his motives and end goal. And what that meant for Kouta and his fate.

And as a friend eloquently put, not liking people's extreme views seems less like a stance he’s taking than an indication that he’s a limp rag.

I can agree that not taking sides can mean that he does not have strong conviction, and the resolve to see them through. But seeing that said extreme views are 1)living in a world of lies and apathy of everything else other than your own interests, and 2)dooming a ridiculous amount of innocent lives for the survival of the few; I can sympathize with him being hesitant, assuming he has any ounce of empathy and compassion for human lives.

Yes it is, and no it woudn't. See, the problem is that Yuuya's death IS the focus of this small arc. Its the turning point that results in Kachidoki Arms.
But not even getting a smallest glimpse of what Yuuya's importance for other characters was, not seeing their reactions, or even so much as see Yuuya's disappearence's effect on the world they inhabit further removes any point for the viewer to even come close to bother with anything that comes with it. Which specifically includes Kachidoki.

No. Yuuya was not the focus of the arc. The real crushing blow came to Kouta's ideals and beliefs that he can save people without making "necessary sacrifices".

Kouta had already gone through the anguish of seeing someone die(Hase) and came to terms with it. Consciously or sub-consciously, he's aware that the Inves they all had been fighting are all people. "Yuuya"'s place in the narrative is basically the "innocent life" that Kouta had sacrificed for his own survival(and the hope of the people). If that makes him a "device" instead of a "character" in your eyes, then that is that.

Of course, if the truth of Yuuya's death ever reached Mai and the team, it will have effects and implications, but the narrative chose for it to not be the focus of this story arc(as seen with Mitchi deliberately stopping Kouta from telling Mai about Yuuya).

Instead, it chose to focus on Kouta's inner turmoil about his battle, after being disillusioned from his ideals. And that is what's the viewer are invested in. Whether Kouta would flee from the battle(like many of us would in his shoes), whether he would yield to it and kill his compassion "for the greater good", and how can he rise from it.
 
Honestly, your reply was utterly incoherent. I'll explain:

1. Apparently, you're assuming that the subtext is "DJ Sagara is pretty weird". That's definitely not the subtext LazerWolfX was talking about, and thus using it as a reply to his argument seems terribly out of place.

2. Neither the subtext is "DJ Sagara is pretty weird" nor what LazerWolf thinks the subtext is, "underline the themes of the show," at least basing on your example of underlining a couple of posts back. Or rather, you'd have to explain how it does, because right now, I don't see how you can. The subtext of Sagara's identity has very little to do with Kouta choosing his path.

... This would work a lot better if you were to actually tell me what this important subtext that I missed is rather than making a vague reply about how I'm not getting it, and I seriously have no clue what I'm supposed to get out of that incoherent mess of a second point.

I don't want to be that a-hole, but pot calling the kettle black much?

Speaking of "underlining" and narrative demanding something: This is a merchandise driven show, and thus there are things that just have to be there, and thus for the narrative to demand something that corresponds to it.

Writing the story in order to make meeting those demands actually underline the themes of the show well is a VERY good thing.

Also, for not a few people, taking the path that is opens up to you when faced with a dilemma is not a far-fetched possibility. It's actually usually one of the better choices.

... And I'm pretty sure whatever arguement you are now making has nothing to do with what I'm saying anymore, so I'm gonna answer with an equally vague incoherent statement of "well ToQger is doing it better".

Yuuya was just used as yet another piece in the conflict between the beliefs in play here. Kouta's claim that he'd protect everyone without sacrifices, only to learn that he had made one and his battle had been a lie. That leads to Kouta believing for a moment that Yggdrazil might be right and there's no way to win, only for Sagara to appear and reveal that even Yggdrazil doesn't know everything, and that there's a chance he could still save everybody, he just had to play outside of their rules. I guess you consider that exposition, but I don't see how it was out of place or unfitting. Why is Sagara explaining the situation to someone he seems to have found reliable a problem with the narrative?
You are arguing within the compounds of the narrative, not its execution. Thus I cannot answer, because its not the question that has anything to do with what I'm saying.

And, yes, that means he wasn't much of a character. However, he received screentime appropriate to that. It was clear that they hadn't forgotten him, but they didn't make the viewer suffer through angst exclusively focused on a character that the viewer would have little chance to really care about. When it came about, it was only a part of bigger elements of the show. You seem to complain about what the show isn't doing, rather than what it actually chose to be its focus.
The problem is what it chose to be the focus is reliant on that we care about Yuuya, or atleast care enough to see why Kouta reacted with sadness and horror. But Yuuya is only scantly mentioned when the story finds it unavoidable, and only there for the shock value of it. He's not a character, but another blatant story device. A story device that these "bigger themes" have partially built themselves on top of.

You seem to be conviced this is the only way for the story to handle Yuuya, but its really not. It doesn't have to go this way or your supposed "angst exclusively about the character". You can't argue about how bad the other way would be when you yourself don't know what it is.
We knew about her, but it's clear that most viewers couldn't care about her in spite of that. So, all the focus and screentime given for her drama, which wasn't only done to inform the viewers, but also feel it, ends up feeling like a waste.
Then why should we care about anything having to do with Yuuya, which the story has so carefully made as one of its foundations?
With Koyomi there was attempt. Atleast we got to know her to the extent of having idea how she interacts with different people.
 
Talking about that scene, a part of the story there is that it is indeed "Sagara driving Kouta back into the fight, when he was about ready to drop out". It's not unreasonable to say that Sagara was forcing a view on to Kouta, and gave him the tools to move forward with it. For his own ends and agenda, whether it be benevolent and malevolent. The music, and the atmosphere of the scene, was actually really grim and foreboding, all pointing to the fact that, in a way, the "upgrade" isn't really a good thing to happen. The story arc of Kouta's struggling with his dilemma may have ended, but it opened up questions and mysteries of Sagara's identity, his motives and end goal. And what that meant for Kouta and his fate.
This would be fine. Except this was already done.

With Lemon Energy.

And this seems to only support my arguement that all of these characters are just pawns for the narrative. Even if there is a payoff, as a weekly show it is absolutely tedious to watch.

No. Yuuya was not the focus of the arc. The real crushing blow came to Kouta's ideals and beliefs that he can save people without making "necessary sacrifices".
Kouta had already gone through the anguish of seeing someone die(Hase) and came to terms with it. Consciously or sub-consciously, he's aware that the Inves they all had been fighting are all people. "Yuuya"'s place in the narrative is basically the "innocent life" that Kouta had sacrificed for his own survival(and the hope of the people). If that makes him a "device" instead of a "character" in your eyes, then that is that.

Decent reasoning, but I can't help but to feel this isn't what the writing is saying. "Consciously or sub-consciously, he's aware that the Inves they all had been fighting are all people" is something that we are only left to assume, rather than something that the text is doing anything to indicate so.

Instead, it chose to focus on Kouta's inner turmoil about his battle, after being disillusioned from his ideals. And that is what's the viewer are invested in. Whether Kouta would flee from the battle(like many of us would in his shoes), whether he would yield to it and kill his compassion "for the greater good", and how can he rise from it.

But that, again, hinges on the plot revelation, which hinges on the viewers caring enough about Yuuya and Kouta. Neither of which have been fulfilled.

It's also good to know you get along with the new Kingranger just as well!

If this is about being a dick I just want to make it clear right now that whatever I am saying is strictly and exclusively based on whatever subject is in question, in this case toku shows and people's understanding and interpretations of it, and has nothing to do with anyone's intelligence or what kind of person they are.
"You don't get this show" has nothing to do with "you are an idiot overall".
 
Last edited:
... This would work a lot better if you were to actually tell me what this important subtext that I missed is rather than making a vague reply about how I'm not getting it, and I seriously have no clue what I'm supposed to get out of that incoherent mess of a second point.

I don't want to be that a-hole, but pot calling the kettle black much?

See, this is why LazerWolf was frustrated. You're being unnecessarily dense by missing the really simple point he was making: That the subtext is about Sagara's relation to the forest and a little more insight into what his motivations.

So, no, not pot calling kettle black, more like... confusion as to how a simple concept can fly entirely over a person's head.

... And I'm pretty sure whatever arguement you are now making has nothing to do with what I'm saying anymore, so I'm gonna answer with an equally vague incoherent statement of "well ToQger is doing it better".

As with the previous portion of my reply: Confusion as to how a simple concept can fly entirely over a person's head.

I'm saying that:
1. Things like powerups get inserted into the storyline because of marketing decisions, so that's normal, and that means that Kachidoki arms would be inserted into the narrative sooner or later....
2. The fact that Kachidoki arms was inserted in a narrative that underlines a theme is actually the best way to insert it,
3. When the protagonist's plot-important actions don't underline the theme, that's bad; I don't understand why you're complaining when it's doing the right thing.

The problem is what it chose to be the focus is reliant on that we care about Yuuya, or atleast care enough to see why Kouta reacted with sadness and horror. But Yuuya is only scantly mentioned when the story finds it unavoidable, and only there for the shock value of it. He's not a character, but another blatant story device. A story device that these "bigger themes" have partially built themselves on top of.

No, the focus is reliant on Kouta, Mai, Micchy and the rest of Team Gaim caring about Yuuya. It's not about how much time we've seen Yuuya, it's about how much time we've seen Kouta et. al. looking for and worrying about Yuuya.

So yes, he is a plot device, but again, I don't understand where you're getting the part about us caring about Yuuya. As far as I'm concerned, it's just you.
 
Last edited:

Latest News & Videos

Latest News

Back
Top