Kabuto - Still the best.

[Black Fang]

Sure, they didn't show every Rider receiving their Zecters, but we know that Zect made them and we know that Zect's president was plotting against Zect itself, so those actions make sense, even if the scenes weren't directly shown.

All we know was that Riku and Kusakabe were plotting to destroy ZECT and the Natives. Not once is there an implied connection between that and how Daisuke and Tsurugi gained their Zecters.

It's like people complaining about Riders being useless just because they weren't around for the final battle against the Natives, even though everyone helped in the final battle against the standard Worms, which were the main enemy during most of the series. The last few episodes were pure Kagami and Tendo focus, but that doesn't suddenly erase every previous action.

What do you mean, everyone helped? Daisuke didn't do anything. Yonemura and Co. suddenly remembered Tsurugi had an actual plotline, and killed him off after a hasty resolution. The Hoppers just moped as usual and killed themselves in a final burst of "emoness" that for some reason people think is awesome. (If I were writing this they wouldn't have even existed, but that's another story.) Why shouldn't the remaining Riders be there for the final battle? The show show dealt with (albeit not very well but it was a good idea) Tendou making allies and enemies. Does it not stand to reason that he should get his allies together for the last stand?

Heck, even Jiraiya pulled its finale off better than Kabuto, despite it missing about half of the ally World Ninjas. At least a few came back and were thus useful to the plot, instead of being just throwaway hero characters not connected to the main plot. (Which most of the Kabuto Riders wended up being.)

Kagami's father goes all "the doors of hell are open!" and Yaguruma speaks about coming back from hell and has his own Zecter. The connection seems pretty obvious.

No it doesn't. Th only thing that's obvious is that this was another attempt to throw in the "AWESOME MYSTERY!!" factor that failed just like the rest.

 

[kei_chan09]

But still, arrogance is bad.

to hell with being bad. whats wrong with that? i dont see u complaining to tsukasa's arrogance. :redface2:

theres nothing wrong with being confident.

tendou is way better than that lousy nogami ryoutaro

 

[NeonZ]

All we know was that Riku and Kusakabe were plotting to destroy ZECT and the Natives. Not once is there an implied connection between that and how Daisuke and Tsurugi gained their Zecters.

I think that the belts ending up with people who'd fight against worms but wouldn't obey Zect, and the higher up commanding Zect plotting against Zect itself seems a pretty obvious connection. Just like the red shoes system (the later actually directly stated in the show).

Daisuke didn't do anything.

He was shown in a few scenes fighting against the worm army. Sure, not as useful as the others, but he wasn't completely absent.

Yonemura and Co. suddenly remembered Tsurugi had an actual plotline, and killed him off after a hasty resolution.

Tsurugi set up the worms and prepared their army to be defeated by the Riders, killing himself with them. How is that a "hasty" resolution?

The Hoppers just moped as usual and killed themselves in a final burst of "emoness" that for some reason people think is awesome.

The Hoppers killed an executive worm in the final battle against the worms, you know, the commander of the worms before Tsurugi took over. Hardly unimportant.

Why shouldn't the remaining Riders be there for the final battle? The show show dealt with (albeit not very well but it was a good idea) Tendou making allies and enemies. Does it not stand to reason that he should get his allies together for the last stand?

That's what I was just talking about in the other message. The show did have a battle about the Riders united against the worms, showing everyone participating, ending with Tsurugi basically killing himself because he was unable to accept his existence as a worm, but taking most of them with him - eliminating the villains that were around during most of the show.

That's everything that series needed to do to justify everyone.

But I've noticed many people just ignore that and focus only on the battle against the natives, acting like the native's existence completely erased 45 episodes of the show.

So, because the show moved on to another villain, and in this last story they only focused on 2 characters, basically everything that had happened previously in the show somehow didn't count? I just disagree.

No it doesn't. Th only thing that's obvious is that this was another attempt to throw in the "AWESOME MYSTERY!!" factor that failed just like the rest.

Ok, maybe it isn't "obvious", but it seems strongly and directly implied in this case.
The doors of hell are open -> I came from hell with new Zecters!

 

[aniking_8]

KABUTO IS GOOD!

 

[Black Fang]

I think that the belts ending up with people who'd fight against worms but wouldn't obey Zect, and the higher up commanding Zect plotting against Zect itself seems a pretty obvious connection. Just like the red shoes system (the later actually directly stated in the show).

None of that had anything to do with Drake and Sasword's origins. There never was any connection implied between Riku and those Zecters. And the whole ordeal with ZECT trying to catch Tendou and take his belt took up much of the first half of the show. Now all of a sudden you're going to say Riku was personally involved with that? If he was really on his side, he wouldn't be sending ZECT members to try to eliminate him all the time. The decision to catch Kabuto was someone else's. He was just watching from the shadows.

He was shown in a few scenes fighting against the worm army. Sure, not as useful as the others, but he wasn't completely absent.

Which episode? And come on, relegating secondary Riders to sideline status like that? It's amazing how far people will go to defend the usage of the Kabuto Riders. I really don't get it.

Tsurugi set up the worms and prepared their army to be defeated by the Riders, killing himself with them. How is that a "hasty" resolution?

It was all done near the end of the show, just before his whole plotline was forgotten completely.

The Hoppers killed an executive worm in the final battle against the worms, you know, the commander of the worms before Tsurugi took over. Hardly unimportant.

Big deal. They appear one time to help out Tendou. What about all the others times, where all they do is hang out in the dark whining about how bleak life is and on a whim fight a Worm or two.

Can someone tell me what the hell is so "badass" about that? A serious answer, not the tripe that's usually dished out.

That's what I was just talking about in the other message. The show did have a battle about the Riders united against the worms, showing everyone participating, ending with Tsurugi basically killing himself because he was unable to accept his existence as a worm, but taking most of them with him - eliminating the villains that were around during most of the show.

That's everything that series needed to do to justify everyone.

But I've noticed many people just ignore that and focus only on the battle against the natives, acting like the native's existence completely erased 45 episodes of the show.

First of all, it had nothing to do with Tsurugi not wanting to live, but him keeping his promise to himself and his sister to exact vengeance. That included, in the end, killing himself as well since he too was a Worm.

Secondly, Daisuke wasn't in that battle, so all the Riders weren't there. And even so, it's such a forgettable scene that it hardly matters. Just dumping the Riders in one area and saying "See, they're united!" isn't an example of quality writing. Again I point to Jiraiya. That's a good example of heroes who aren't necessarily a team but join together in certain instances when need be. They don't just randomly assemble on the writers' whims. "Oh right, there are other heroes here. Let's throw them in...... ahh..... here! And forget about them again."

So, because the show moved on to another villain, and in this last story they only focused on 2 characters, basically everything that had happened previously in the show somehow didn't count? I just disagree.

So because they united one time means they don't have to anymore? It's the ultimate battle between humanity and ZECT! Why the hell shouldn't the other Riders (the ones still living anyway) be there? Did Daisuke go "Eh, don't give a damn" and continue on painting people's faces? If you're going to go "Oh he was fighting elsewhere" then why don't you either (1) mention it or (2) show some cut scene. You don't just leave it in the wind (pardon the pun) and showcase only Tendou and Kagami, as though they're the only important heroes.

Ok, maybe it isn't "obvious", but it seems strongly and directly implied in this case.
The doors of hell are open -> I came from hell with new Zecters!

Not really. It's all very vague and directionless writing anyway.

 

[CaptainB_Money]

Kabuto was alright. Nothing to special. Sure it was 35th anniversary of Kamen Rider but Agito did a better job of being an Anniversary series.

Sure its got the hoppers... but they aren't the first series to have guys like the, Remember the Alternatives of Ryuki? Yeah same basis.

Tsrugi was one of the greatest characters ever in rider history in my opinion. He was a worm fighting his own people which I know isn't something new in kamen rider but he did it well all the way to his Climactic death.

Tendou was interesting around the first half but when the 2nd half came around he god-moded everything.

Kagami was an everyman's man.

I'm not saying this series was bad. because Its sort of what brought me back in the fandom after my 2005 break.

But it was just... 6.5/10.

 

[StaticShin27]

Well I mean, they didn't give Kabuto a lot of forms, so hence you make more riders

 

[ForeverRed]

Tendou is badass!!

 

[Keith Justice]

Tendou is badass!!

:castlerock::thumbs:

RIDER KICK! O__O

 

[NeonZ]

There never was any connection implied between Riku and those Zecters.

So, there's no connection between Zect's president and the Zecters created by Zect...? I think the connection is pretty obvious.

Sure, they could have explicitly shown that, but those actions makes sense even without a direct explanation, so they aren't a real problem. If Kagami's father had never been revealed to be working to undermine Zect itself there would be a problem, but, considering that revelation, those events aren't random at all.

And the whole ordeal with ZECT trying to catch Tendou and take his belt took up much of the first half of the show. Now all of a sudden you're going to say Riku was personally involved with that?

I'm not saying that. His agenda clearly wasn't known by most of Zect, so Zect trying to recover the Kabuto belt, even though Zect's president never intended to take it from Tendo makes sense.

Which episode? And come on, relegating secondary Riders to sideline status like that? It's amazing how far people will go to defend the usage of the Kabuto Riders. I really don't get it.

I can't remember the episode number, but it was after the last arc focused on him, but before Tsurugi's death. It was basically just a couple of suit-only cameos.

Anyway, Drake is the only Rider that is so uninvolved with the main plot. Even so, he had his own storylines which were backdrop for some decent episodes.

It was all done near the end of the show, just before his whole plotline was forgotten completely.

Huh... He kind of died afterwards, and had his plotline resolved (with the worms being mostly defeated alongside their leaders, only a few weak ones remaining, - besides the Natives, of course).

Big deal. They appear one time to help out Tendou. What about all the others times, where all they do is hang out in the dark whining about how bleak life is and on a whim fight a Worm or two.

Kick Hopper was defeated the 2nd form of the executive worm with the triple Rider kick alongside Tendou and Kagami.

Can someone tell me what the hell is so "badass" about that? A serious answer, not the tripe that's usually dished out.

I liked their fighting style, but their personalities... eh, I'm pretty sure they were intended to be a parody of dark character types.

Their attitudes often were just too over the top to be taken seriously, but I always thought that was the point anyway, considering how most of the cast didn't take them seriously either (outside of battles).

And even so, it's such a forgettable scene that it hardly matters.

Opinion about the battle's quality is irrelevant to its importance.

It was the conclusion of the enemies that were around since the beginning of the show, a large scale battle against the almost entire remaining worm army at once. It wasn't a random team up or an irrelevant scene.

It's the ultimate battle between humanity and ZECT! Why the hell shouldn't the other Riders (the ones still living anyway) be there?

It was a battle in a much smaller scale than the last battle against the standard worms actually. Sure, it was the conclusion of the show and stopped a plan that could have destroyed humanity, but, in spite of its plot importance and the point it took place, it wasn't some giant battle that lasted hours, so lacking the presence of every Rider isn't weird at all.

Only these last few episodes focused on the natives actually shifted the focus so much to Tendo and Kagami.