I'm Really sick of Tendou and Tsukasa Hate

[ChiPsiUp]

if he had started out really arrogant and seemingly perfect, only to eventually get knocked down a few pegs and learn humility and how imperfections are what makes people human, then he could've been a good character, but that wasn't the case. so in the end, the problem with him was that he was a product of a bad idea for a protagonist that the writing staff only made worse

You know who was a great example of what you just said? Kamen Rider Sasword. He basically was Tendou's character, only done properly.

Think about it, Tsurugi was introduced as "another guy like Tendou, only rich and even more stuck up". He was arrogant, had a catch phrase based on his name, was perfect at everything he did. He and Tendou had a ton of sports competitions which all ended in ties. Then he got knocked off his pedestal. A lot. He lost his money, his arrogance quickly turned comedic. But that was when we actually started to like him. He was flawed, but he had people he cared about and was willing to work hard for it, even if it makes him a clown in the process. And he became best friends with Kagami.


Man, now that I think about it. Kabuto really liked to introduce characters who were "like Tendou, only slightly different" as rivals. Because apparently Tendou is so awesome only someone similar can be his rival. They took this to its logical conclusion when they got to Dark Kabuto, which was LITERALLY Tendou but evil.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

whether Mr.RhythmGymnastics likes it or not, they're all official Kamen Riders.

First off, that was an AWFUL shot at insulting my name. Like, wow, how much did you spend trying to not just write 'Rhythmic?'
Second, I'll stop arguing, since it is absolutely obvious that you ignored anything I wrote just so you could go "NO ME I'M RIGHT ME," because I addressed the idea of 'official' three separate times. If you're going to be a jerk, at least be an educated one.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

First off, that was an AWFUL shot at insulting my name. Like, wow, how much did you spend trying to not just write 'Rhythmic?'
Second, I'll stop arguing, since it is absolutely obvious that you ignored anything I wrote just so you could go "NO ME I'M RIGHT ME," because I addressed the idea of 'official' three separate times. If you're going to be a jerk, at least be an educated one.

lol. What are you talking about? I have obviously come up with the greatest insult ever. Also I hope you do stop arguing as your "opinion" on this matter is nothing but an empty statement, its not based on logic in the slightest, and collapses upon itself with the slightest analysis. And whether you disagree with logic or not, no need to say I'm not educated. ****'s just fuckin rude. And don't play like I didn't acknowledge your references to "official" material. Like remember that time when your argument about Let's Go All Kamen Riders blew up in your face and disproved your "opinion" *lights a cigarette* mmm-Hmmm Good Times.

But anyway have fun being illogical and ignorant. Cuuuuuuuuuuz I really can't bring myself to give a **** anymore. Preach all the headcannon you want:thumbs:

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

Preach all the headcannon you want

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[Black Fang]

You know who was a great example of what you just said? Kamen Rider Sasword. He basically was Tendou's character, only done properly.

There is nothing "proper" about Sasword, other than his costume. He doesn't even have a Machine Zectron, much less use it once and dump it later.

Think about it, Tsurugi was introduced as "another guy like Tendou, only rich and even more stuck up". He was arrogant, had a catch phrase based on his name, was perfect at everything he did. He and Tendou had a ton of sports competitions which all ended in ties. Then he got knocked off his pedestal. A lot. He lost his money, his arrogance quickly turned comedic. But that was when we actually started to like him. He was flawed, but he had people he cared about and was willing to work hard for it, even if it makes him a clown in the process. And he became best friends with Kagami.

I never understood why "clueless clown" Tsurugi was so popular. I found him even more annoying than "arrogant snob" Tsurugi.

Sasword like almost everything in Kabuto was wasted potential. I'd have liked to see him start as Kabuto's rival (as he did work for ZECT in the beginning), then later defect (or escape with his Zecter after ZECT tries to take it back after Gatack's debut) and join Kabuto, whom he sees as an equal and vice versa, as a partner. And really do something with the Scorpioworm subplot instead of forgetting about it until the end because we have to have Tsurugi cosplay as Cupid!

 

[FlashNeko]

I never understood why "clueless clown" Tsurugi was so popular. I found him even more annoying than "arrogant snob" Tsurugi.

I think it's because Tsurugi's actor was just much better at performing comedy than being seriously, dramatically jerky, so the latter part of the show tried to focus on that.

He just, ironically, runs into a similar problem that Tendou and Tsukasa have. Namely that the writing around him is so inconsistent that stuff that's funny on its own feels very out of place and jarring, which leads to it being annoying when viewed in the greater context of the show.

 

[lazycoconut]

^ I think it's also as others have said that Tsurugi was at least allowed to fail, whereas Tendou was quite literally perfect and everything went his way

 

[FreedomR8G6B1]

Tsurugi and Daisuke were meant to be secondary foils to Tendou when Kagami wasn't around not to mention I got the impression of Sasword and Drake being the "Kamen"-dy Relief. While Kageyama was meant to be Tsurugi and Daisuke's bitch.

If anything, pre-Kick Hopper Yaguruma gave Tendou a run for his money and if the character was kept intact could've taken Tendou to the limit. He was a perfectionist like Tendou but done things his way, TRUE "Kanzen Chowa"...not that BS Kageyama was preaching.

Alas...Thebee became The "Running Joke" and Dark Kabuto appeared; and the only remnants of true "Kanzen Chowa" was seen in Gatack. :redface2:

 

[Lynxara]

Was it ever officially stated that Shadow Moon is not a Rider?

This seems like a simple, cut-and-dried statement, but oh man it isn't. The show never calls Shadow Moon a Rider, because Black is a single-Rider series and that title is reserved for the protagonist. That seems simple and straightforward, right?

But Rider shows live on for years in merchandising after their TV incarnations are over, and the simple fact is that if you call a character a Kamen Rider, his merchandise sells better. This simple fact is the origin of the entire "evil Rider" trend, it was really just a way to get shows to support bigger merchandise lines by assigning Rider designs to characters that, ten years ago, would've been costume villains or kaijin.

So there's a fair amount of merchandise made in the years after Black that will refer to Shadow Moon as a Rider on the packaging. And it makes sense: in a world where guys like Kaixa and Sasword are Riders, why wouldn't Shadow Moon be one, too?

As it happened, Bandai's desire to market more characters by calling them Riders dovetailed nicely with Toshiki Inoue's own love of moral relativism in his storytelling. It's not a coincidence that "evil Riders" are at peak influence in Rider during Inoue's years of peak influence. Now that the franchise has moved on and "evil Rider" merchandise simply doesn't sell that well outside of the collector market, who is and isn't called a Kamen Rider has been adjusted accordingly. The current crop of Rider writers tend to view the heroics in a more black-and-white way, and merchandise of heroic characters sells by far the best. So in a modern show, a Kamen Rider tends to either be a hero or a hero-turned-villain.

 

[NeonZ]

He just, ironically, runs into a similar problem that Tendou and Tsukasa have. Namely that the writing around him is so inconsistent that stuff that's funny on its own feels very out of place and jarring, which leads to it being annoying when viewed in the greater context of the show.

Tsurugi starts being portrayed in a comedic light right after his debut two parter. He debuted being written by Inoue, but as soon as Yonemura touched him he started changing his portrayal to a comedic character and undermining his whole rivalry with Tendo - which is immediately sidelined to several comedic scenes unrelated to the main plot of those episodes where Tsurugi's incompetency comes to light.

Many of Kabuto's tone inconsistencies seem to come from Yonemura and Inoue attempting to do different things with the cast members during their own episodes.