I'm Really sick of Tendou and Tsukasa Hate

[LaZerwolfX]

Again, you didn't read. The WRITERS of "Kamen Rider W" site the idea that the name is only true for the heroic. It's entirely opinion-based on what makes a true Kamen Rider, not fact.

W's writing team only get to specify what the term "Kamen Rider" means within the context of that specific series. Which they have every right to do, but that does not mean that their definition immediately retcons all those before it. That makes no sense at all. You can't use W's definition of a Kamen Rider and apply that to a series like say Ryuki. They have entirely different settings and the context of how the term Kamen Rider is used is completely different. But even though they have a different perspective, both of their definitions are correct.

555's definition of what a Kamen Rider is, is just as correct as W's. Any character that a series calls a Rider is immediately a Rider in regards to the overall Kamen Rider zeitgeist. Some series might choose to not treat the title with the same honor/respect/whatever as others but they all still count in the big picture.

no, just no. I have had this opinion for so long, I absolutely despise Tendo as a character, and I'm just not going to watch Kabuto. call me stubborn, but I don't care. I've said my piece, and that's all I really came to this thread to do

So you came here to inform us that even though you've never actually seen the series, you already have a "fully formed opinion" and are going to reject any insight that you could gain from people who actually have watched the series? Thats not stubborn, thats downright stupid.
Also since when does how long you have had an opinion have anything to do with its ability to change? I mean sure it might take longer to change a long held opinion, but that in no way means it can't change.

so yeah, I'm done here. to me, Tendo is the worst main rider ever in terms of character, and to me he has way too many negative qualities to warrant me watching the series

You realize that there are in fact characters other then Tendou in the show right? Just because you don't like the main character doesn't mean the whole series needs to be written off. Seems like overkill to me.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

W's writing team only get to specify what the term "Kamen Rider" means within the context of that specific series. Which they have every right to do, but that does not mean that their definition immediately retcons all those before it. That makes no sense at all. You can't use W's definition of a Kamen Rider and apply that to a series like say Ryuki. They have entirely different settings and the context of how the term Kamen Rider is used is completely different. But even though they have a different perspective, both of their definitions are correct.

555's definition of what a Kamen Rider is, is just as correct as W's. Any character that a series calls a Rider is immediately a Rider in regards to the overall Kamen Rider zeitgeist. Some series might choose to not treat the title with the same honor/respect/whatever as others but they all still count in the big picture.

There is no proof that an ideal or concept of 'Kamen Rider' is just 'that series.' None. It's an opinion, something that you seem not to understand. "Let's Go Kamen Rider" says in the film (a civilian's quote) that all of the Riders were there. By your definition, they were wrong. It was an idea of context, not series. 555's definition is just as correct, sure, but I may not agree with it. I may be far more fond of W's interpretation of a Kamen Rider. THEY had an Evil Rider, but to them, he wasn't a true Kamen Rider. I agree with that. That's my opinion.

And yes, I apply it Ryuki. Ryuki was a true Kamen Rider, but not Ohja. MY opinion. Deal with it.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

You realize that there are in fact characters other then Tendou in the show right? Just because you don't like the main character doesn't mean the whole series needs to be written off. Seems like overkill to me.

I watched the first 12 of Kabuto and dropped it; not just because I disliked Tendou but, I disliked everyone who wasn't Kagami or Juuka.

Crisis kidnapped some civilians to draw out RX, whom Shadowmoon was waiting for to fight. However, right before his death, Shadowmoon saved the hostages, revealing that Kotaro's brother's spirit was still in there.

Ah, my mistake. but then again, that's RX; how much should we count it? XD

 

[LaZerwolfX]

There is no proof that an ideal or concept of 'Kamen Rider' is just 'that series.' None. It's an opinion, something that you seem not to understand. "Let's Go Kamen Rider" says in the film (a civilian's quote) that all of the Riders were there. By your definition, they were wrong. It was an idea of context, not series. 555's definition is just as correct, sure, but I may not agree with it. I may be far more fond of W's interpretation of a Kamen Rider. THEY had an Evil Rider, but to them, he wasn't a true Kamen Rider. I agree with that. That's my opinion.

And yes, I apply it Ryuki. Ryuki was a true Kamen Rider, but not Ohja. MY opinion. Deal with it.

You're retroactively applying ideals onto series that that obviously veered away from those ideals on purpose. Thusly fucking up the context and what the writers original intention was. Its not your place to say who is or isn't a true Kamen Rider. Thats disrespectful to the individual writers creation. Just because you're a fan and you have some "opinion" doesn't make your fannon canonical. If they're called a Kamen Rider, they are one.

Your reference to Let's Go All Kamen Rider if anything argues in my favor considering that all the evil riders from ryuki are there as well as dark kabuto sooooo whats your damn point?

Heres a perfectly solid argument; The Rider War. Basically every person whos ever used the title Kamen was there, why would the "untrue Kamen Riders" be there? Simple, because they're all true Kamen Riders.

 

[MattComix]

Crisis kidnapped some civilians to draw out RX, whom Shadowmoon was waiting for to fight. However, right before his death, Shadowmoon saved the hostages, revealing that Kotaro's brother's spirit was still in there.

Which doesn't really jibe with what was established in Black. The entire tragedy of Nobuhiko/Shadowmoon is that he did not get saved from being brainwashed.

In classic Rider shows getting brainwashed by the evil organization is as permanent a thing as The Phantoms in Wizard being monsters who only wear the human form of the person they grew out of like a cheap suit. It can't be cured by a snowflake falling on your nose or something. The point is that their humanity has been obliterated and now only exist as some mockery of life by being turned into a weapon for the evil group.

Kotaro couldn't save Nobhuiko because Nobuhiko was never really there to save. He died when he became Shadowmoon. ...and on a basic level calling Shadowmoon a Kamen Rider is like calling Bizzaro Superman or calling Venom Spider-Man. Or calling Red Hulk a good idea.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

You're retroactively applying ideals onto series that that obviously veered away from those ideals on purpose. Thusly fucking up the context and what the writers original intention was. Its not your place to say who is or isn't a true Kamen Rider. Thats disrespectful to the individual writers creation. Just because you're a fan and you have some "opinion" doesn't make your fannon canonical. If they're called a Kamen Rider, they are one.

Your reference to Let's Go All Kamen Rider if anything argues in my favor considering that all the evil riders from ryuki are there as well as dark kabuto sooooo whats your damn point?

Heres a perfectly solid argument; The Rider War. Basically every person whos ever used the title Kamen was there, why would the "untrue Kamen Riders" be there? Simple, because they're all true Kamen Riders.

I seriously do not think that you understand the term "opinion."

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

Ah, my mistake. but then again, that's RX; how much should we count it? XD

I love "RX," personally. One of my favorites.

Which doesn't really jibe with what was established in Black. The entire tragedy of Nobuhiko/Shadowmoon is that he did not get saved from being brainwashed.

In classic Rider shows getting brainwashed by the evil organization is as permanent a thing as The Phantoms in Wizard being monsters who only wear the human form of the person they grew out of like a cheap suit. It can't be cured by a snowflake falling on your nose or something. The point is that their humanity has been obliterated and now only exist as some mockery of life by being turned into a weapon for the evil group.

Kotaro couldn't save Nobhuiko because Nobuhiko was never really there to save. He died when he became Shadowmoon. ...and on a basic level calling Shadowmoon a Kamen Rider is like calling Bizzaro Superman or calling Venom Spider-Man. Or calling Red Hulk a good idea.

I'll agree with you there. The two-parter with Shadowmoon was fantastic, and Shadowmoon was in top form. But that ending felt out of place. I do have a theory, though. Shadowmoon and Black were always in struggle against one another. Day vs. Night. Light vs. Dark. Good vs. Evil. However, one never truly 'bested' the other, so to speak. There were victors, sure, but never a winner. However, that struggle was interrupted by the Eon King himself. So when Shadowmoon returned, he had become naturally powerful enough to again have that struggle. However, with his new powers and experience, RX finally managed to win. In the first match RX would not stop thinking of SM as his brother, and this lost him the fight. However, when he stopped this and only believed "My brother would never do this, let me save these people or fall like the rest," he won. He beat Shadowmoon. And with Shadowmoon beaten, Kotaro's brother had one last moment to shine.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

I seriously do not think that you understand the term "opinion."

I believe I've already made it pretty clear that I know perfectly well what an opinion is. But most people tend to shape their opinions by gathering as much evidence as possible. You're just selectively adopting the evidence that supports your "opinion" and rejecting everything else that doesn't work. Thats not how well thought out opinions are formed. This isn't some "I reject your reality and substitute my own" kinda situation. Just because you slap the title opinion on a statement doesn't mean no ones allowed to ask why you feel that way or have issue with your reasoning, especially when its obvious that you're just rejecting everything that doesn't fit with this half baked ideal you've come up with that directly contradicts official cannon. You're welcome to feel this way, but its completely bullshit.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

I believe I've already made it pretty clear that I know perfectly well what an opinion is.

No, no you haven't. You're entire argument is "you don't agree with me so you're wrong." Writers have clearly shown two ways to look at "Kamen Riders," and I chose to look at it in the way of a 'real Kamen Rider' being beyond just a self-given title. To be a true and blue Rider, you need more than the suit and name. That's my OPINION. That's an OPINION. There is no right answer. But for you there HAS to be, because no one can ever disagree with you ever. Write as many sentences as you want, it won't change that.

Jesus, why even bother? You'll try to 'disprove' something in a way that makes no sense, try to make me seem more antagonistic than I am, and then throw in an insult for good measure. That's ALL you have been doing.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

You disagreeing with me isnt the problem, its that your argument is purely based on what you feel without taking cannon evidence into account because it directly contradicts how you feel. You're trying to see this as black and white when its clearly shades of grey.