[DISCUSSION] Kamen Rider Heisei Generations Forever (Movie)

[Japaneseseriesfan]

Would it not have been cool if Brave had had an Assassin's Creed or Dragon's Dogma-inspired look? If Snipe had been modeled on Metal Gear Solid? The video game theme just seemed wasted in Ex-Aid.

Regarding Build, examine how science and technology had progressed during the "Belle Epoch", the period from the 1870s after the Franco-Prussian War up until 1914 when Franz Ferdinand took a wrong turn at Sarajevo. With all of these advancements, more and more people were getting concerned over how devastating a potential future war would be. Everyone wanted peace; even military lovers like Kaiser Wilhelm II wanted a victory, not a war (odd as that may sound). Build had a theme of advancements in science being corrupted by entities like Faust for evil purposes. Sento regretted the work he had done in his "past life" since it spearheaded all of the carnage that was going on between the three countries, and Faust's experimentations on innocents. With WW1 came the beginning of the mass death of religion and morality in Europe, which birthed dark worldviews to fill in the void and resulted in even more amoral use of Man's machinery.

I think they avoided those games in particular because the Japanese people want to well... elevate more Japanese themes, or capture primarily mainstream and broad concepts. Like I'm pretty sure Brave's Taddle Quest is essentially Dragon Quest. and Bang Bang Shooting is well... I don't know, Call of Duty? Counterstrike? Ah beats me...

But yeah, I'd have loved a Assassin's Creed type Gashat, or even Metal Gear Solid for Snipe. I think they didn't pick Metal Gear Solid solely because that could have solved the Dangerous Zombie pretty fast. I think it was the old Metal Gear Solid 2, if I recall, where if your character got killed by a zombie, you can come back as one and vomit out laser blasts. I think that was one of the stages, memory isn't too clear on that. But see, it's this lack of wanting to cross the threshold and possibly push Kuroto further for the sake of resolving him so that they can get to Parado taking him out and becoming the main antagonist for awhile that destroyed this progression.​

Damn, you sure know your stuff. Appreciate the history lesson. This was exactly why I signed up here to begin with 10 years ago. People like you telling us exactly how it is.

I guess I will put it in spoiler in case anyone here is still not watching Build.
Best Match is indeed messed up and I think it is fault of toys department, but in series, scriptwriter have a good idea to turn this messed up toys to become good satisfying plot.

Spoiler

Villain mastermind, Evolt, is psycho evil who enjoying to gather information about Earth before destroying it. Hence, he take control Soichi body and force him to answer his question about what is the living thing which will make him happy and what is needed to destroy it. Love and destruction.
Full bottle essence was created according Soichi answer. At first he answer it with something dangerous like Tank or Gatling, but then his conciousness start to fight back and he start to mumbling about random thing. The reason Soichi snap out is because he remember about his daughter, and first half of his answer is based what his daughter like when he show her drawing book.
From the beginning, it is random thing and become more random because Soichi snap out. Like how the hell you kill a lion with vacuum cleaner. This plot is just to show Shoichi's final retaliation against Evolt to protect his daughter. He is concious this entire series but can't do anything while he watch Evolt messed up with his daughter life.

Heisei Generation Forever is messed up story but they try to cover it with many fanservice which have nothing to do with the plot. I mean the biggest plot hole about this is how can be Fuutaros exist if there is no real Kamen Rider in those sibling world. Is Denliner capable to cross another dimension now?

I mean, the Urobutcher did this too right. He forced the Lockseeds to work in his script, and this is where I say he did it better. I mean... yeah, you can say Build's writer tried, but it falls short on what Gen achieved with Gaim. Ah well... can't have Gaim every season. Like... that explanation just... seems like it tried. But yeah, the toy department is clearly at fault here.

I haven't seen Heisei Generation Forever yet, but I don't have any urgency to do so. I don't know what it is, I just don't like Zi-O's actor. He has no charisma as an actor. Or charm. Like I just can't be bothered, and I don't care too much about Takeru Satou (although I think he did pretty great in the Bakuman live action, haven't seen his live-action Ruroni Kenshin film, but people keep praising it so I might check that out).

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

But yeah, I'd have loved a Assassin's Creed type Gashat, or even Metal Gear Solid for Snipe. I think they didn't pick Metal Gear Solid solely because that could have solved the Dangerous Zombie pretty fast. I think it was the old Metal Gear Solid 2, if I recall, where if your character got killed by a zombie, you can come back as one and vomit out laser blasts. I think that was one of the stages, memory isn't too clear on that. But see, it's this lack of wanting to cross the threshold and possibly push Kuroto further for the sake of resolving him so that they can get to Parado taking him out and becoming the main antagonist for awhile that destroyed this progression.

Forget what I said about Metal Gear Solid here. I got it wrong, I don't think there was a stage where there's a zombie that kills you. I must be thinking of a completely different game... *sigh*

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

No wait.. I was right. UGH, where's the EDIT button?

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

No wait.. I was right. UGH, where's the EDIT button?

It's at the bottom for your post, just hidden. Highlight the area that says when you posted your reply, and move the cursor all the way to the right until you see: Edit Delete Report. Those are your buttons.

 

[Black Fang]

I think they avoided those games in particular because the Japanese people want to well... elevate more Japanese themes, or capture primarily mainstream and broad concepts. Like I'm pretty sure Brave's Taddle Quest is essentially Dragon Quest. and Bang Bang Shooting is well... I don't know, Call of Duty? Counterstrike? Ah beats me...

But yeah, I'd have loved a Assassin's Creed type Gashat, or even Metal Gear Solid for Snipe. I think they didn't pick Metal Gear Solid solely because that could have solved the Dangerous Zombie pretty fast. I think it was the old Metal Gear Solid 2, if I recall, where if your character got killed by a zombie, you can come back as one and vomit out laser blasts. I think that was one of the stages, memory isn't too clear on that. But see, it's this lack of wanting to cross the threshold and possibly push Kuroto further for the sake of resolving him so that they can get to Parado taking him out and becoming the main antagonist for awhile that destroyed this progression.​

I'm only using those games as examples. My larger point was that video games the material to come up with some cool designs, but instead we got cartoon-eyes, pale pastels and Nerf belts/arsenals.

That would be a nice parlor game: come up with your own Rider for GENM's Kamen Rider Chronicle based on characters or things in existing games. Imagine an Area 51 Rider, a Shadow of the Colossus Rider, Call of Duty, Prince of Persia, the Arkham games, Ace Combat, Devil May Cry... the list goes on. Some of these games could even be Level 3 and up gashats instead of separate Riders: imagine a Batman Arkham Rider with DMC armament, or vice versa. He'd be a literal vampire bat. ​

Damn, you sure know your stuff. Appreciate the history lesson. This was exactly why I signed up here to begin with 10 years ago. People like you telling us exactly how it is.

Glad to help.

 

[Shogun_Master]

The funniest thing in the movie was how much of a cop out the way they got the double watch was. Shortly followed by that scene after the first fight when all those people were filming them & cheering where you later go back and realize that all those people were super impressed with how those actors legit blew up the stunt guys they were fighting.

All I can really say was that this movie was very confusing and felt really compacted and long. I think the writers have been cooped up in that room too long and they're starting to get super meta. Of course, I guess the fact someone brought up about how Ultraman has done the same thing is probably a better explanation. But, the movie wasn't the worst thing ever. That final fight was pretty good.

As someone who hasn't watched a single episode of Build, this movie or his appearances in the Zi-o series doesn't make one feel the need to watch it. The suits are ugly, his sidekick's not funny, I hate Otoya, and Build himself is basically just Kamen Rider Sheldon? No, thanks.

They didn't really do a very good job of being faithful with Ryuga's personality. If you were to base your entire understanding of him off of this movie alone, it really wouldn't surprise me that that's your conclusion. But Build was kind of a weird season. It starts off with a pretty good hook, but makes you think given everything happening around it that no one is even really trying and nothing is explained or attempting to make the slightest bit of sense. But, it does end up answering every single question you've got... eventually. Actually, really well, too.

As to Build treating people like crap, he does often get annoyed when he can figure something out and someone else can't and, maybe prides himself a little too much on always having an answer, but it's not Sheldon level. Hell, it's not even Kabuto level, where it seems like he's an incredible douche until you sort out his psyche and the only answer the show can give you is that this guy is literally beyond human understanding and to stop trying.

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

I saw every episode of Build, and I never once got the impression that Sento/Build was being unnecessarily mean to his friends. Its true that in the beginning of the show, him and Ryuga/Cross-Z are kind of thrust into a weird situation together and neither really want to rely on each other. However, they soon get along really nicely and become friends. And any instance of Sento calling him an "idiot" is just playful ribbing. They do it to each other all the time and it means nothing. Sure, Ryuga might not be a genius like Sento and doesn't always understand the science stuff he gets into, but none of them truly abuse each other. They look up to each other, fight like best friends, and their relationship is pretty wholesome. It may seem weird seeing it for the first time in a movie like this, but the portrayal isn't incorrect. Just means you really need to see and absorb the Build TV show to understand it.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

It's at the bottom for your post, just hidden. Highlight the area that says when you posted your reply, and move the cursor all the way to the right until you see: Edit Delete Report. Those are your buttons.

Yeah... still can't find it. I highlighted my entire posts. Nothing showed up. All it says is "Like" or "Reply".

 

[raden238]

I finally got around watching this movie and I give a 7/10. Was this perfect, absolutely not. But this movie was meant to celebrate the Heisei Riders and the franchise as a whole and it did just that. This is first Rider movie that had kid characters that I actually cared for. Shingo and Ataru's moments were very touching and essentially was an allegory for Rider fans. They great up with the show and loved it (Shingo) but then had a falling out with the franchise and just stopped caring anymore (Ataru).

The movie made no sense, logically, Zi-O's own lore that it established in the show, and Rider in general. They did the whole "as long as people remember the Kamen Riders, they will always live on etc.. with the 40th Anniversary film from 2011. But here they went further, practically meta level with the whole "its just a dumb show to sell toys" bit. I found it to be very tongue in cheek.

It's hard for me to get into Rider movies nowadays because they're all so manufactured like it came from a factory. We always get some bad cgi giant fight, child characters, a generic villain that just wants to kill people or destroy/take over the world. It's the same thing over and over again. I already stopped watching the summer movies and only gave this a viewing because it had a bigger budget and I knew they would have a surprise for the fans.

It took 11 years to get Takeru Satoh to reprise his role as Ryotaro but it was worth it. Its so rare for movies nowadays to keep secret casting and spoilers from leaking out or showing it in the trailers but Toei did a good job this time around. The way Momotaros talk to Ryotaro was basically what Rider fans would have said. This movie was meta and touching in a good way for me. It stands out from the rest. I will say say that Movie War Megamax, Kamen Rider Taisen and Heisei Generations Final are still the top-tier Rider movies for me.