FreedomR8G6B1
New Member
Bueno said:
Ironically, Alpha Stunts did the fights for that movie.:laugh:
Toku Fight Scenes
- Thread starter Sage Shinigami
- Start date
Ironically, Alpha Stunts did the fights for that movie.:laugh:
Bolt
boogie woogie feng shui
FreedomR8G6B1 said:
Why is that ironic?
Sage Shinigami said:
The hell they aren't. You won't find anything in ANY Tokusatsu that's even close to the kind of stuff you'll see in a quality martial arts movie.
And why do you keep calling Tendou "plot device"? It doesn't really make any sense.
But if you really want Toku action, older Sentai shows and the Seishin series (especially Justiriser and Sazer X) are really the best places to look. Certain Kamen Riders have really good action some of the time, or somewhat good action all of the time, but I've never really seen a KR that has great action all of the time. Of course, given my hobbies and tendancies, I could just be more of a critic than most people. :anime:
Keith Justice
New Member
Best toku fighting I get for my buck comes from Power Rangers and GARO. And no, I don't mean the brief moments when they fly on wires, but the detail of choreography that.. need a duck, into a spin, into an unexpected, well executed kick from an angle I never would have thought of and follow it up with a whirl of punching, kicking and blocking combinations.
Any wire-work I don't mind at all, since given what shows use them, it tends to add to the comic booky/anime/fantasy element.
While they get hated on, when it comes to the way the fight plays out, PR and GARO are tops in my book.
Any wire-work I don't mind at all, since given what shows use them, it tends to add to the comic booky/anime/fantasy element.
While they get hated on, when it comes to the way the fight plays out, PR and GARO are tops in my book.
JFC
♥ 大好き ♥
What? :sly: ALL characters included in any story are "polt devices" to some extent. The characters are what move the plot/the story along. Some are larger plot devices because they're more involved with the plot/story. So of course Tendou is a plot device, just like Kagami is a plot device, Tendou's little sister is a plot device, Kageyama's a plot device, Kagami's father is a plot device, etc. etc. etc.Sage Shinigami said:
I never said specifically that I preferred the fight scenes involving Kabuto the character. I was saying that so far, I've liked what I've scene in terms of the fight scenes in the Kamen Rider: Kabuto series. And in specific terms of Tendou's fight scenes, correct me if I'm wrong, but his style of fighting is more akin to what real martial arts combat is like in real life. From what I've been hearing from martial artist friends of mine, the type of martial arts that looks good on camera isn't necessarily "real" martial arts that one could use in real life. In terms of the character of Tendou himself, and the way that he "stomps" on his opponents, as you put it, to me it's a reflection of the training and inner strength and confidence that he has in himself. Remember that he's had the rider belt for years, he has said that he's developed a relationship with it. He's no doubt been training his body and honing his skills for most, if not all this time that he's had that belt. Compare that with Kagami's fighting when he became TheBee. As I said earlier, Kagami's fighting seemed to be more frantic, a sign that he probably hasn't been training in the martial arts for as long as Tendou has been.
This is, of course, my humble opinon.
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Sage Shinigami
Member
Bolt said:
Okay, maybe plot device is the wrong word. Maybe the male version of a Mary Sue, or whatever. What I mean is, he's not really a normal character. He just runs around pwning whatever he sees.
laudre
Member
I dunno about this. Honestly, if you're looking for just pure fight choreography, wushu without wires or anything but performers' skill, I wouldn't look at toku first -- good martial arts films have it all over toku any day of the week. And if you're willing to allow some special effects (wirework and now CGI into it), I can't think of anything I've ever seen involving real people that impressed me more than Hero. (I got to see this movie twice in theaters, once visiting my wife, back when she was my fiancee, in Singapore, and again about a year later after it came out here in the States, and discovered that, yes, it was every bit as impressive as I'd remembered.) Garo came a close second, and I suspect that where it fell short of Hero was by a combination of the talent they used and budget restraints, not for lack of imagination. (Say what you will about the plot and such, Garo was phenomenally well-designed and fruitfully ambitious in a lot of ways.)
Anyway, I'm not nearly as impressed by Kabuto's fight scenes, as a whole, as by some of the things I've seen elsewhere. There HAS been some really neat stuff happening -- Kabuto cutting the car in half and everything that followed that scene, the scene in the rain (which would've impressed me a lot more if Smallville hadn't done that years ago), but the speed stuff is starting to wear a little thin, with the cherry blossoms and now (poorly modelled) bullets. Part if it is, as someone else said, the way Kabuto fights isn't all that spectacular; I much preferred, say, watching Hajime fight, because both in and out of the suit he often fought with the same kind of casual almost-indifference that Kabuto tries, but with a real feeling of power and grace to it all the same. There was a similar feel to the first time we saw Ichi-go in the First, when he stormed the office building before he regained his own mind and memories.
Hibiki is the only Kamen Rider show I've watched that didn't have pretty damned good fight choreography, and that wasn't so much a failing of the choreographer as a question of focus. What they did they did very well, it just wasn't the wushu we usually see in a KR show. I'm rather fond of the fight choreography in Justiriser, most especially just about any scene involving Demon Knight. Gransazer also had some great moments, though my single favorite moment wasn't much of a fight -- it was one of the first times we saw Logia, when some ordinary guy challenges him while he's in his henshined form, and he shoots him -- but doesn't even draw his gun from behind his back, just twists a bit and fires from the holster. It was just slick, a move that said a lot about the character through both its precision and ease.
Anyway, I'm not nearly as impressed by Kabuto's fight scenes, as a whole, as by some of the things I've seen elsewhere. There HAS been some really neat stuff happening -- Kabuto cutting the car in half and everything that followed that scene, the scene in the rain (which would've impressed me a lot more if Smallville hadn't done that years ago), but the speed stuff is starting to wear a little thin, with the cherry blossoms and now (poorly modelled) bullets. Part if it is, as someone else said, the way Kabuto fights isn't all that spectacular; I much preferred, say, watching Hajime fight, because both in and out of the suit he often fought with the same kind of casual almost-indifference that Kabuto tries, but with a real feeling of power and grace to it all the same. There was a similar feel to the first time we saw Ichi-go in the First, when he stormed the office building before he regained his own mind and memories.
Hibiki is the only Kamen Rider show I've watched that didn't have pretty damned good fight choreography, and that wasn't so much a failing of the choreographer as a question of focus. What they did they did very well, it just wasn't the wushu we usually see in a KR show. I'm rather fond of the fight choreography in Justiriser, most especially just about any scene involving Demon Knight. Gransazer also had some great moments, though my single favorite moment wasn't much of a fight -- it was one of the first times we saw Logia, when some ordinary guy challenges him while he's in his henshined form, and he shoots him -- but doesn't even draw his gun from behind his back, just twists a bit and fires from the holster. It was just slick, a move that said a lot about the character through both its precision and ease.
Shougo B'Stard
Would like to change his avatar
laudre said:
Could it be...I don't know, the advantage of not being dragged down by a suit and making use of your peripheral vision? I think that little point is often overlooked -- it's not going to be fun to be in a suit, especially one like a metal hero outfit. But when someone like Takanori Shibahara or Jiro Okamoto were able to provide a good fight scene in those nightmarish suits, I respect that more than Jet Li and his doubles prancing around on wires, even if the end result isn't "flashy" or "groundbreaking."
Bolt
boogie woogie feng shui
Shougo B'Stard said:
Forget Jet Li or any of these really mainstream kung fu actors... they're usually not anywhere close to being the best there is. Try guys like Lam Ching-Ying, Hsiao Ho, Cheng Tien-Chi, Yuen Biao, Chiu-Jian Guo, the more obscure types. Suits or no, Hong Kong's signature action has the upper hand on the Japanese style in pretty much every respect, except maybe cinematography, in the 70's.
However, suits can't be that much of a detriment; trust me, if you're able to pull off an Arabian or a butterfly twist in-suit (things that they've done in the Seishin shows, though their costuming is admittedly a bit lighter), there's nothing stopping you from some swift moves that have some crispness without the sloppiness of most Tokusatsu shows.
