Shinken Pink: Shut Up Bitch, Go Fix Me a Turkey Pot Pie

[MattComix]

A show that gives a message that women should conform to narrow, archaic stereotypes (sweet, motherly, girlie types) IS SEXIST. You can't deny it. It's like trying to deny that the characters transform into spandex-clad superheroes and fight evil.

I can deny it because it's not true. That is not the message of the show, that's just the message you want to see because it seems like anything girly strikes you as the work of the oppressor.

 

[Aoi Kurenai]

I'm sorry. But when I saw the title of this thread, I asked myself. What the ****? I'm a little lost. What the **** is this thread about exactly?

...did you even bother to read the first post? Sexism in tokusatsu.

 

[Black Fang]

All right, can you think of any such show in which a woman has hit a man?

You haven't watched much toku, have you?

 

[lazycoconut]

I can deny because it's not true. That is not the message of the show, that's just the message you want to see because it seems like anything girly strikes you as the work oppressor.

Oppressive, no. Pointless, yes. I didn't say it is the entire message of the show, just the message behind the female characters. I'm also aware that they are a reflection of Japanese society which is, itself, incredibly misogynistic.

I also very much doubt anyone will come up with an example of a woman hitting a man in frustration in a Japanese show, and getting the guy/getting away with it as Takeru almost certainly will. Never mind, eh? :eyebrow:

 

[lazycoconut]

You haven't watched much toku, have you?

It's not portrayed as a good/acceptable thing, whereas since Takeru/Mako is almost certain to be canon that is tacit approval of his behaviour. What's to say he will never hit her again after they are married?

Dekaranger has a pretty good example of this hypocrisy: DekaBreak has some similarities to Mako (he wants to be emotional and compassionate in battle) but his commander is supposedly bad for hitting him, even though he was wrong and she was right. It's also made clear that this was an abuse of her power, much like Takeru hitting one of his vassals.

 

[Lynxara]

It's not portrayed as a good/acceptable thing, whereas since Takeru/Mako is almost certain to be canon that is tacit approval of his behaviour.

If Takeru/Mako doesn't become canon, this thread is going to become stupendously hilarious. (I mean, even more so than it is now.)

So, has it yet occurred to you that you're arguing about a show that doesn't exist while everyone else is talking about one that does? You're talking about episodes that haven't aired yet and things you can't prove happened in the series or in the creative process.

This leads to a truly amazing phenomenon where, when you're pressed for examples to support your points, you can't even draw them from Shinkenger! You start talking about Dekaranger or Go-onger or some goddamn other thing no one else is talking about. I guess because even you yourself know that Shinkenger offers no evidence to support your position!

You have no right to do this. It's the classic "my dog Checkers" fallacy: when you can't defend yourself with legitimate argument, change the subject! Seeing it come out of someone besides one of the 20th century's most corrupt politicians is really something.

 

[lazycoconut]

If Takeru/Mako doesn't become canon, this thread is going to become stupendously hilarious. (I mean, even more so than it is now.)

So, has it yet occurred to you that you're arguing about a show that doesn't exist while everyone else is talking about one that does? You're talking about episodes that haven't aired yet and things you can't prove happened in the series or in the creative process.

This leads to a truly amazing phenomenon where, when you're pressed for examples to support your points, you can't even draw them from Shinkenger! You start talking about Dekaranger or Go-onger or some goddamn other thing no one else is talking about. I guess because even you yourself know that Shinkenger offers no evidence to support your position!

You have no right to do this. It's the classic "my dog Checkers" fallacy: when you can't defend yourself with legitimate argument, change the subject! Seeing it come out of someone besides one of the 20th century's most corrupt politicians is really something.

I generally point out where another show has done the same thing. If you think that's irrelevant, I'll stop doing it.

Purely on the subject of Shinkenger, it is an abuse of power for Takeru to hit any of his vassals, especially a woman. If, in the show, he gets together with Mako anyway, that will be condoning his behaviour. Even if not, it's still wrong, even if he is under the influence of the Gedoushuu. I don't believe that Shinkenger, or any other Sentai show would have a woman hit a man like that and expect the viewer to be OK with it.

 

[lazycoconut]

If Takeru/Mako doesn't become canon, this thread is going to become stupendously hilarious. (I mean, even more so than it is now.)

So, has it yet occurred to you that you're arguing about a show that doesn't exist while everyone else is talking about one that does? You're talking about episodes that haven't aired yet and things you can't prove happened in the series or in the creative process.

This leads to a truly amazing phenomenon where, when you're pressed for examples to support your points, you can't even draw them from Shinkenger! You start talking about Dekaranger or Go-onger or some goddamn other thing no one else is talking about. I guess because even you yourself know that Shinkenger offers no evidence to support your position!

You have no right to do this. It's the classic "my dog Checkers" fallacy: when you can't defend yourself with legitimate argument, change the subject! Seeing it come out of someone besides one of the 20th century's most corrupt politicians is really something.

I generally point out where another show has done the same thing. If you think that's irrelevant, I'll stop doing it. I'm not even going to touch the "no right" thing; it's not exactly against the law, is it? :rolleyes2:

Purely on the subject of Shinkenger, it is an abuse of power for Takeru to hit any of his vassals, especially a woman. If, in the show, he gets together with Mako anyway, that will be condoning his behaviour. Even if not, it's still wrong, even if he is under the influence of the Gedoushuu. I don't believe that Shinkenger, or any other Sentai show would have a woman hit a man like that and expect the viewer to be OK with it.

 

[Oedipus 3000]

Haven't even touched Shinkengers yet nor really have an opinion about sexism in toku (I'll come back once I have one about it.) but just wanted to give props to O.P for one of the best thread names in the intermanets history:thumbs:

 

[Lynxara]

I'm not even going to touch the "no right" thing; it's not exactly against the law, is it? :rolleyes2:

Well, if you did this sort of thing in a court of law when being questioned by a lawyer-- changing the subject instead of answering straight-- it would be considered contempt and could in fact get you tossed in jail depending on the judge!

On a message board, it's not against the law but it is a really lousy thing to do to people. It disrupts conversation and lets valid points by brushed off, since you're "refuting" them in a way that makes no sense. It is definitely not a legitimate form of argument, which is why it's associated with the likes of Richard Nixon these days.

It just doesn't matter if similar things happened in other Super Sentai if people are just talking about Shinkenger. You don't know that other people in the conversation have even seen Dekaranger or Go-Onger. Even if they have, there's no reason why they should care about the behavior of unrelated characters if they're debating specific things from Shinkenger. It gets especially weird when you're trying to use the behavior of unrelated male dudes from other shows to prove that Mako is a shitty person.

Purely on the subject of Shinkenger, it is an abuse of power for Takeru to hit any of his vassals, especially a woman.

Not by Japanese historical standards. Traditionally speaking, his vassals are his property and he may do as he sees fit with them, up to and including executing them for pretty much any reason he sees fit. Takeru is of course not very comfortable with this, which is why he tries to get everyone to leave in the first couple episodes. Dude doesn't like being Tono-sama, who would?

So, wait, when the hell did Takeru hit Mako? And why is this so horrible? Mako is a badass fighter, do you think she can't defend herself? I am pretty sure Mako could break Takeru over her knee if she really cared to do it.

Even if not, it's still wrong, even if he is under the influence of the Gedoushuu.

Er, wait, what, you think characters should be held responsible for things they've done while mind-controlled? Really?

Do you think if a woman gets raped, it's her fault because she was wearing a short skirt and clearly asking for it? You appear to be applying the exact same sort of logic here.

What should Takeru have actually done while mind-controlled, become so spontaneously noble he'd cut his own throat before he'd submit to Gedoushuu commands? The Romans felt any good woman would kill herself before submitting to rape, so if you got raped your husband could have you stoned for unfaithfulness.

Double-standards are awesome!

I don't believe that Shinkenger, or any other Sentai show would have a woman hit a man like that and expect the viewer to be OK with it.

Except for all the times the female Shinkengers have beaten the ever-loving **** out of the universally male (with one exception) Gedoushuu, right? How about all the times Dayuu's easily beaten the snot out of male Shinkengers despite being a very obviously female villain? Or does gender somehow stop counting for the monster-suit characters?