Kamen Rider Gaim Ep 43 - "Baron's Ultimate Transformation"

[kuroihikari]

Really? In my opinion, that's one of the charms of his work. The philosophical, ideological and political debates and discourses were nothing short of brilliant.

I never really did understand the hate for shows that have a ton of dialogue. It makes you think. And very few shows are actually capable of that.

There are way better mediums to tackle philosophical discourse. Anime and toku are among the worst because they require a huge degree of suspension of disbelief.

I find that using anime/toku to do it is an exercise in intellectual masturbation and/or pretense.

Also, generally, exposition in visual media=bad. Show, not tell. Most people don't really care nowadays though that characters blabber unnecessarily all the time (I hate the Monogatari series for this) because it makes them feel smart that the characters feel smart about themselves.

 

[Actar]

There are way better mediums to tackle philosophical discourse. Anime and toku are among the worst because they require a huge degree of suspension of disbelief. I find that using anime/toku to do it is an exercise in intellectual masturbation and/or pretense.

I completely disagree with this statement. Anime and toku are fiction by nature and more of a medium than a genre. As it is a medium, it is capable to conveying a myriad of stories and styles, from pure visual spectacles to those that are more expository inclined. Similarly, I don't really buy your "suspension of disbelief" argument when it comes to shows that constantly deal with transforming heroes, mecha and other fantastical situations.

Also, generally, exposition in visual media=bad. Show, not tell. Most people don't really care nowadays though that characters blabber unnecessarily all the time (I hate the Monogatari series for this) because it makes them feel smart that the characters feel smart about themselves.

Personally speaking, it's all about different styles and different strokes for different folks and I don't see it as being something inherently or objectively bad. Anime is a flexible enough medium to handle that storytelling format and I wouldn't disparage it over purely "show" pieces like those from Robot Carnival or even comedies like Mr. Bean.

 

[Henshinger]

Everything about this episode was brutal. It was awesome. Seriously, this show keeps wowing me.

I can't wait till the final dual between Kouta and Kaito.

Micchy breaking down makes me happy, the little douche deserves it.

 

[FlameDragon]

holy fucking **** i love this series, this fucking episode was a fucking neverending roller coaster driven by the urobutcher.

 

[HurricaneDragon]

This episode definitely surprised me. I didn't at all expect to see Kouta be the one to "die," and I was sure this would be the last we were seeing. We were even given a fairly decent set of a events to set up Kaito's "decent into darkness" - from his perspective, Kouta's dead, Mai's dead, Micchy's lost it, and he's back to being weak in the face of Ryouma again. It's no wonder he broke like that. Let's hope they finish him out as well as they've built him up.

The one thing I'm confused about is Mai. If the girl in the past spoke the things she didn't want said, then where did those words come from?

Though this does explain why she stopped showing up after a while, By that point it was too late to change anything.

 

[Eldar]

The one thing I'm confused about is Mai. If the girl in the past spoke the things she didn't want said, then where did those words come from?

It was probably one part of what she was thinking about while she failed to deliver the more important parts of her message. Remember she is a solid manifestation in the past despite being a ghost in the present so she is like Sagara in a ways that he is a manifestation of the forest and she is a manifestation of herself.

But the way they resolved this just smacks of a badly conceived retcon. It seems probably that their original plan for Mai going back to the past didn't line up with the current episode they planned for it to happen (this one) and due to the multiple plots threads they had to juggle and resolve and the limited air time left this was the best they could explain it

Really given how alternate Mai and her motives was such a major issue and how quickly they tied it up, it seems it was either a) not something Urobuchi wanted to do (which I don't find plausible give that he reuses her in the Kachidoki episode) or that b) it was a plot thread planned, but really got out of hand in that they didn't map out the specific character mechanics for it such as why Mai would only leave half-hinted warnings and not give Kouta, Kaito or Micchy more specific details such as don't trust Sagara or Ryouma or Sid.

 

[Actar]

The one thing I'm confused about is Mai. If the girl in the past spoke the things she didn't want said, then where did those words come from?

She went back into the past and tried to change things, but didn't realize that she was already living in the world in which she already said them and failed to change anything. And her realizing that what she said was wrong was only after realizing that her words didn't change anything.

 

[Dr Kain]

Wow, amazing. This show is still one of the best KR series of all time.


So, when do they hit the reset button?

 

[kuroihikari]

I completely disagree with this statement. Anime and toku are fiction by nature and more of a medium than a genre. As it is a medium, it is capable to conveying a myriad of stories and styles, from pure visual spectacles to those that are more expository inclined. Similarly, I don't really buy your "suspension of disbelief" argument when it comes to shows that constantly deal with transforming heroes, mecha and other fantastical situations.

That's exactly the point, though. You deal with fantastical situations thus any philosophical discourse that can be made run through the risk of running through the barrier that separates fantastic philosophy and actual, relevant philosophical discourse.

And when you're philosophizing about fantastic philosophy, it's not intelligent anymore, it's a waste of time. Thus, intellectual masturbation. If I'm gonna spend minutes listening to someone babble about a fake philosophy, I'd rather read a book. Or take classes. About real-world philosophy.

Personally speaking, it's all about different styles and different strokes for different folks and I don't see it as being something inherently or objectively bad. Anime is a flexible enough medium to handle that storytelling format and I wouldn't disparage it over purely "show" pieces like those from Robot Carnival or even comedies like Mr. Bean.

I'm not disparaging anime or toku. I'm saying that it's a medium that falls short of other mediums in actually conveying reality or the human condition. You can make an anime or toku that limits the fantastical elements, but you can do the same better in other mediums.

Anyway, all that is irrelevant. We all have the choice of what we watch.

 

[Actar]

That's exactly the point, though. You deal with fantastical situations thus any philosophical discourse that can be made run through the risk of running through the barrier that separates fantastic philosophy and actual, relevant philosophical discourse.

And when you're philosophizing about fantastic philosophy, it's not intelligent anymore, it's a waste of time. Thus, intellectual masturbation. If I'm gonna spend minutes listening to someone babble about a fake philosophy, I'd rather read a book. Or take classes. About real-world philosophy.

Wait... How can you differentiate real-world philosophy and fictional philosophy? Where do you draw the line? Philosophical concepts and thought experiments such as the Brain in the Vat or the Prisoner's Dilemma are all fantastical in nature and are used to illustrate abstract ideas (both of which have been used in anime before). Just because the situation is made up, doesn't mean that the ideas behind it are not worthy of consideration.

I'm not disparaging anime or toku. I'm saying that it's a medium that falls short of other mediums in actually conveying reality or the human condition. You can make an anime or toku that limits the fantastical elements, but you can do the same better in other mediums.

In all honestly, correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to be a case of you not being able to take anime or toku seriously enough as a medium.

Anyway, all that is irrelevant. We all have the choice of what we watch.

Amen to this. We've gone off topic enough as it is. Let's agree to disagree~