Kamen Rider Gaim Ep 26 - "Baron's Genesis Transformation!"

[Photon]

I wonder why Ryoma programmed his ELS with that phrase, considering he isn't someone who is focused on fighting, he prefers to let others do that for him (the one time he fights Kouta, it was for gathering data, not actually fighting to defeat Kouta)

 

[Guardian07]

I wonder why Ryoma programmed his ELS with that phrase, considering he isn't someone who is focused on fighting, he prefers to let others do that for him (the one time he fights Kouta, it was for gathering data, not actually fighting to defeat Kouta)

The phrase fits Kaito like a glove, though.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

He is always already transformed first

I forget, was he transformed when he tried out Jinba Peach in 24? My shoddy memory right now's thinking he went from Kouta to Peach but, bluh.

I wonder why Ryoma programmed his ELS with that phrase, considering he isn't someone who is focused on fighting, he prefers to let others do that for him (the one time he fights Kouta, it was for gathering data, not actually fighting to defeat Kouta)

[hide]Ryouma's supposed to have a transformation scene coming up so, maybe we'll find out then[/hide]

 

[Ice Ixa]

But the faceplate is locked in before a seed is even opened. It can't recognize what seed is being used because it isn't inserted at that point. Although, that does make me wonder if you can have a Seed locked in and THEN put the belt on. It would speed up the process quite a bit if you don't have to go through the whole sequence(Seriously, only Blade has a clunkier henshin sequence.) of unlocking and locking and just cut to the chase.

I completely forgot the faceplate appears that early, thanks.

 

[Glamador]

I'm wondering, do you know that the original Japanese dialogue for the overlord's language also has a cypher for converting it into real Japanese? Some Japanese have used that cypher to decrypt what the Overlords are saying, and it includes some minor spoilers for those who can decipher the message.

I think what Aesir has done is a reasonable analogue in English. I understand getting annoyed by Sengoku and Ornac, but I think this was very well done, as it reflects the original intention clearly and creatively. If you're a Japanese speaker you could convert the language into an intelligible one, and now, as an English reader, you can also do so.

Alternatively, if you want to keep it a mystery, you can just read unintelligible garbling, which is exactly the same as it is for the Japanese.

I don't disagree with the concept of using a cypher. In fact I think it's very clever and emulates the experience of Japanese listeners very well.

Let me explain my train of thought on why I do not want to see it though, and why I even slightly prefer TV-N's approach:

A Japanese speaker will not understand the Overlord language unless they transcribe it and work out the cypher, no? So they do not actually comprehend the speech until after-the-fact unless they are just language savants.

And I know that I've seen other people on these forums tell me that the major problem with TV-N's animations and colors is that they are obtrusive and block the images on screen, yes? Well that is what the cypher does but 3x as bad. It takes up a wide swathe of screen real estate with letters that provide NO added comprehension to the scene. Doesn't this go against the rules of subbing?

But beyond that, by using an ENGLISH cypher (compared to the runes TV-N used) you get people's eyes looking down to TRY and read them...but comprehending nothing. That's taking focus away from what you're supposed to be looking at during the scene while providing NO benefit to understanding.

Having an *English* cypher on-screen is a net negative effect to the viewer. It distracts, obscures, and provides no benefit until after-the-fact.


Magenta says that there is a way to locate the lines in question using the...sign? I don't know what that is, but I'll look for it in the script for this episode, since I've already seen it. If there's some way to identify those lines and remove them, then that's what I'm going to do.

If I can't, though, then I'm humbly requesting tags.


EDIT: Okay, I see what Magenta meant by "Signs". It's the typefont or something. And it looks like the only things that use it are the Overlord cypher and a few titlescreen items (In the episode previews and commercials, no dialogue).

That's not awful. I suppose I can live with that. But I would prefer tags so I could just use a wildcard to do them all at once.

 

[kuroihikari]

I don't disagree with the concept of using a cypher. In fact I think it's very clever and emulates the experience of Japanese listeners very well.

Let me explain my train of thought on why I do not want to see it though, and why I even slightly prefer TV-N's approach:

A Japanese speaker will not understand the Overlord language unless they transcribe it and work out the cypher, no? So they do not actually comprehend the speech until after-the-fact unless they are just language savants.

And I know that I've seen other people on these forums tell me that the major problem with TV-N's animations and colors is that they are obtrusive and block the images on screen, yes? Well that is what the cypher does but 3x as bad. It takes up a wide swathe of screen real estate with letters that provide NO added comprehension to the scene. Doesn't this go against the rules of subbing?

But beyond that, by using an ENGLISH cypher (compared to the runes TV-N used) you get people's eyes looking down to TRY and read them...but comprehending nothing. That's taking focus away from what you're supposed to be looking at during the scene while providing NO benefit to understanding.

Having an *English* cypher on-screen is a net negative effect to the viewer. It distracts, obscures, and provides no benefit until after-the-fact.


Magenta says that there is a way to locate the lines in question using the...sign? I don't know what that is, but I'll look for it in the script for this episode, since I've already seen it. If there's some way to identify those lines and remove them, then that's what I'm going to do.

If I can't, though, then I'm humbly requesting tags.

The cypher takes up one line most of the time, in place of where a line of English text would be otherwise. It's not comparable to visual text effects that take up paragraphs or fly all over the screen (Rewatching Shinkenger again. Damn that was awful).

In fact, I would argue that the lack of subtitles takes away from the experience, because you're expecting one, and don't know why you're not getting any. So your point is still, well, invalid, from my POV. We get from TVN unintelligible script that simply reminds you that it's gibberish and nothing much else. What we get here is actually VERY useful (and for people that know the cypher, the benefit is not after the fact, just the same effect as it was for the Japanese)

 

[Glamador]

What you seem to forget here is that the English is, in fact, *NOT* supposed to be there. There is, actually, supposed to be *nothing* there. And you should look up the word "invalid".

If it is illegible then it is no better than a picture. It is not the same effect because reading is not the same as listening and it never will be. We make due with subtitles that we hope are as inobtrusive (or at least seamlessly blending) as we can.

But unlike a picture the mind attempts to read words, even if they are gibberish. The brain will make the attempt even as you try to ignore it. THAT is why a cypther is worse. Runes are not English letters, which is why I prefer TV-N's approach in this case, though I prefer just nothing as it was two weeks ago.

But mayhaps your brain works differently. For you, maybe, it's less jarring to see something there than nothing. For me it is the opposite. Is is far more jarring and distracting to see something I cannot read.

And, as always, I am not saying that it should be removed or that anyone is wrong for preferring one or the other. I merely advocate that we be given the choice to improve our own viewing experience.

 

[Reimon]

Micchy definitely deserved that slap from Mai....... I used to love him but....... now I'm not so sure, anymore......... >u>"

Also Kaito's Lemon Energy Arms...... it's so sexy *u*

Micchy is such a backstabber now.

 

[kuroihikari]

What you seem to forget here is that the English is, in fact, *NOT* supposed to be there. There is, actually, supposed to be *nothing* there. And you should look up the word "invalid".

What I said is: if the English isn't there, it's a worse crime. How will you know that it's supposed to be unintelligible? How will you know that it's supposed to mean something to people who can decipher it?

Thus, "invalid". It would only be valid if your alternative actually makes the situation better: It doesn't. It takes away a huge part of what the show's creators intended to convey. It could be forgiven before given a lack of information, but we're way past that.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

Just speaking as a Rider fan, I don't think anyone's supposed to understand the Overlords right now; the concept is very clearly copying the Grongi and I can't imagine anyone going "Hey, you should watch Kuuga the first time through with the Grongi translated! It's not like it'll ruin surprises or anything; nah, you'll be fine!".