Foundation X & Continuity in Kamen Rider?

[LaZerwolfX]

So in this fan base i notice a trend of people claiming that there is continuity in the newer kamen rider series from W onward. I have also found that any time i question the legitimacy of this "continuity" people get incredibly defensive and I don't understand why.

Honestly, i think that the concept of continuity in kamen rider is pretty much pointless, due to the fact that the shows never directly interact and the only time we see riders from different series work together is in crossover movies (Decade aside as that series is obviously a special case/exception) but I've always seen the crossover movies as something like officially licensed/produced fanfic. But that aside, to me that the connections current rider series have to one another feel flimsy, cheap, and tacked on.

Example: FOUNDATION X IN FOURZE: So just recently Foundation X appeared in Kamen Rider Fourze, and people were freaking out, spouting fan theories, trying to come up with more ways to tie W-Fourze together and so on. But I saw this as nothing more than a cheap cameo, I mean honestly unless Foundation X shows up again to actually affect or drive the plot in some way, what difference does them being there actually make??

Some might argue that FX's statement about funding Gamou ties them to the plot. But it does't at least not in any substantial way, what I'm getting at here is that they could have written anyone as the sponsor and it would have had the same effect. Shocker, NEO-Zect, hell even Zangyack it doesn't matter who. Just because they say they are funding him doesn't mean it actually shapes the series main plot line in the slightest. Where as in W, Foundation X were actually key players in the 3rd act of the series, actively opposing Phil andy Sho.

Not to mention FX funding Gamou doesn't even make sense in the first place. Gamou doesn't seem to have any monetary gain in mind. He seems to just want to raise hell. Why the hell would an organization throw money to a guy, when there is nothing in it for them? Does that seem like weak writing to anyone other than me?

I keep finding users who will suspend as much imagination, do as much mental gymnastics, and omit as much material as they can to believe in this continuity. Even though in the big picture it changes nothing and doesn't improve anything about the franchise. and so I'm asking anyone with a well formed opinion who is willing to have their opinion questioned to illuminate me as to "why?" what makes continuity so important to you? why do you think it matters? anyway please respond and thanks for stopping by. cheers.

 

[Khaiden]

So in this fan base i notice a trend of people claiming that there is continuity in the newer kamen rider series from W onward. I have also found that any time i question the legitimacy of this "continuity" people get incredibly defensive and I don't understand why.

Honestly, i think that the concept of continuity in kamen rider is pretty much pointless, due to the fact that the shows never directly interact and the only time we see riders from different series work together is in crossover movies (Decade aside as that series is obviously a special case/exception) but I've always seen the crossover movies as something like officially licensed/produced fanfic. But that aside, to me that the connections current rider series have to one another feel flimsy, cheap, and tacked on.

That's your opinion, and...
The Kamen Rider, V3, X, Amazon, Stronger, New Kamen Rider, Super-1, ZX, BLACK RX, ZO & J, Kuuga & Agito series and movies highly disagree with this. It's okay if you haven't watched many of the series but do realize that your statement is incorrect, Kamen Rider had a solid continuity for 30 years.

That is one of the reasons why so many of us... or well, at least me are so insistent on continuity.

Example: FOUNDATION X IN FOURZE: So just recently Foundation X appeared in Kamen Rider Fourze, and people were freaking out, spouting fan theories, trying to come up with more ways to tie W-Fourze together and so on. But I saw this as nothing more than a cheap cameo, I mean honestly unless Foundation X shows up again to actually affect or drive the plot in some way, what difference does them being there actually make??

Your opinion again, the movie happened, and they had to vanquish a threat there from Foundation X, so it made a difference. If you don't want to count Megamax as actually happening, then it's different.

Some might argue that FX's statement about funding Gamou ties them to the plot. But it does't at least not in any substantial way, what I'm getting at here is that they could have written anyone as the sponsor and it would have had the same effect. Shocker, NEO-Zect, hell even Zangyack it doesn't matter who. Just because they say they are funding him doesn't mean it actually shapes the series main plot line in the slightest. Where as in W, Foundation X were actually key players in the 3rd act of the series, actively opposing Phil andy Sho.

They're not there to shape the plot, they're there for the continuity presence, just like the Riders brief video-clips in episode 2.
Besides, the series isn't over yet, we still don't know what their status will be.

I keep finding users who will suspend as much imagination, do as much mental gymnastics, and omit as much material as they can to believe in this continuity. Even though in the big picture it changes nothing and doesn't improve anything about the franchise. and so I'm asking anyone with a well formed opinion who is willing to have their opinion questioned to illuminate me as to "why?" what makes continuity so important to you? why do you think it matters? anyway please respond and thanks for stopping by. cheers.

We love the franchise, we love what we see, and it's all about imagination and having fun with it. If we didn't have imagination, why would we bother watching this? It's just taking it to the next step.
My humble opinion: It might not change the actual product, but it's all our universe, shaped and inspired by what is given to us. We are free to do whatever we want, and most of us want a good continuity.
Why do we want a good continuity? I can only think it's because Kamen Rider had a good one for 30 years, but I might be wrong.

 

[scikaiju]

Punting to the correct forum

 

[NeonZ]

Just because they say they are funding him doesn't mean it actually shapes the series main plot line in the slightest. Where as in W, Foundation X were actually key players in the 3rd act of the series, actively opposing Phil andy Sho.

Do you come from a future where Fourze's last act has already aired and Foundation X was completely inconsequential? No? Then I don't see the point of that comparison.

I mean honestly unless Foundation X shows up again to actually affect or drive the plot in some way, what difference does them being there actually make??

In addition, even if they end up not being relevant to the tv show, this means that they can return in later movies and have a legit set up for their appearance and technology. Really, compare this to "Dai-Zangyack" and "Dai-Shocker" appearing out of nowhere for Super Hero Taisen. Foundation X actually has a logical set up going on that can be used in future stories without just using cheap random resurrected villains and also acknowledge past stories. These small appearances and set ups are one of the elements giving legitimacy and coherence to their appearance in the movies.

Not to mention FX funding Gamou doesn't even make sense in the first place. Gamou doesn't seem to have any monetary gain in mind. He seems to just want to raise hell. Why the hell would an organization throw money to a guy, when there is nothing in it for them? Does that seem like weak writing to anyone other than me?

Why is there nothing in it for them? Even if Gamou himself isn't doing it for money or military tech, Foundation X isn't interested Gamou's goals, they want Gamou's technology to add to their own and then use it for their own convenience. Even if you ignore Megamax, where they're shown using all the tech they've gathered so far, that was pretty clear even in that brief tv scene itself, where they wanted the results of Gamou's research.

I keep finding users who will suspend as much imagination, do as much mental gymnastics, and omit as much material as they can to believe in this continuity. Even though in the big picture it changes nothing and doesn't improve anything about the franchise. and so I'm asking anyone with a well formed opinion who is willing to have their opinion questioned to illuminate me as to "why?" what makes continuity so important to you? why do you think it matters? anyway please respond and thanks for stopping by. cheers.

Why don't you explain yourself first? Why do you suspend imagination, do mental gymnastics and omit as much official material as possible to dismiss continuity? I mean, first, you don't want to accept official movies that have been referenced by the show, now you want to dismiss scenes from the series itself. There's something driving you to erase any connection between the shows in spite of the obvious authorial intent.

I think it "matters" because it seems to clearly be the official line the current team handling the franchise is using. I wouldn't try to argue for some kind of Heisei Rider continuity during Kiva, in spite of the crossover movie with Den-O - and I still believe that there isn't Sentai continuity - but the situation nowadays for the Rider franchise is clearly different - at least regarding the Tsukada produced material.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

That's your opinion, and...
The Kamen Rider, V3, X, Amazon, Stronger, New Kamen Rider, Super-1, ZX, BLACK RX, ZO & J, Kuuga & Agito series and movies highly disagree with this. It's okay if you haven't watched many of the series but do realize that your statement is incorrect, Kamen Rider had a solid continuity for 30 years.

That is one of the reasons why so many of us... or well, at least me are so insistent on continuity.

Well obviously its my opinion, what i'm trying to do is understand another groups opinion, and you're not helping. Im not trying to argue, I'm writing what i think so someone else can understand my perspective and then provide their own. not to mention none of those series/movies you refer to (plenty of which i have seen) have anything to do with what i'm talking about. I'm strictly talking about the "continuity" of W onward. And no, just because kamen rider used to have "solid" continuity for 30 years does not mean that series afterward have to do the same.

Your opinion again, the movie happened, and they had to vanquish a threat there from Foundation X, so it made a difference. If you don't want to count Megamax as actually happening, then it's different.

Obviously its my opinion, that doesn't make anything I'm saying less valid than what you're saying. All either of us have is our opinions, its not a contest. and no i don't believe megamax is canon, when would it take place? How come gentaro never mentions/reminices meeting OOO and W or Nadeshiko?

They're not there to shape the plot, they're there for the continuity presence, just like the Riders brief video-clips in episode 2.
Besides, the series isn't over yet, we still don't know what their status will be.

but its flimsy, it doesn't hold any weight, and why establish continuity if you're not going to have stuff from the past come and influence the current plot in a significant way again? all i think that the fan base cares much, much more about the continuity than toei does, and i don't understand why.

We love the franchise, we love what we see, and it's all about imagination and having fun with it. If we didn't have imagination, why would we bother watching this? It's just taking it to the next step.
My humble opinion: It might not change the actual product, but it's all our universe, shaped and inspired by what is given to us. We are free to do whatever we want, and most of us want a good continuity.
Why do we want a good continuity? I can only think it's because Kamen Rider had a good one for 30 years, but I might be wrong.

I love the franchise too, i also engage in fan theories, but i do not see the point of nor do i want continuity. i feel that forcing writers to keep continuity along with what they are writing already being HEAVILY affected by the toys designed for the show will bog them down and harm what would otherwise be a potentially brilliant story. I just don't feel its worth the effort. and there HAS TO BE a better reason why people want continuity so badly and i want to find out, thats the goal

 

[LaZerwolfX]

Do you come from a future where Fourze's last act has already aired and Foundation X was completely inconsequential? No? Then I don't see the point of that comparison.

defensive much? the comparison is there to show a well written arch villain over a cheap cameo, and until Foundation X does something in the series, thats all they are right now.

Why is there nothing in it for them? Even if Gamou himself isn't doing it for money or military tech, Foundation X isn't interested Gamou's goals, they want Gamou's technology to add to their own and then use it for their own convenience. Even if you ignore Megamax, where they're shown using all the tech they've gathered so far, that was pretty clear even in that brief tv scene itself, where they wanted the results of Gamou's research.

thats poor writing and on top of that a terrible market strategy.

Why don't you explain yourself first? Why do you suspend imagination, do mental gymnastics and omit as much official material as possible to dismiss continuity? I mean, first, you don't want to accept official movies that have been referenced by the show, now you want to dismiss scenes from the series itself. There's something driving you to erase any connection between the shows in spite of the obvious authorial intent.

its tacked on cheap, and most importantly doesn't matter. there is nothing gained or lost in my opinion by these shows not being connected. even if W-Fourze exist in the same world it doesn't seem to change anything. if the authors are going through the trouble of making these flimsy ties, why not have them not be flimsy? why not have W make a cameo in Fourze? Why not have Ama High have a field trip to Fuuto? if they want them to connect they should either really go full steam, or not worry about it. as long as they are in this awkward middle phase, the continuity may as well not exist.

I think it "matters" because it seems to clearly be the official line the current team handling the franchise is using. I wouldn't try to argue for some kind of Heisei Rider continuity during Kiva, in spite of the crossover movie with Den-O - and I still believe that there isn't Sentai continuity - but the situation nowadays for the Rider franchise is clearly different - at least regarding the Tsukada produced material.

except for OOO, where the original writer didn't care about the continuity, so then they decided to go back and change that during megamax? i think that many in the toku fan base puts way more weight on this continuity than it can really hold. it doesn't have depth and it feels really half assed to me.

 

[Hell Kaiser Andy]

defensive much? the comparison is there to show a well written arch villain over a cheap cameo, and until Foundation X does something in the series, thats all they are right now.

Foundation X hadn't done a thing at episode 35 of W so you can't even point out anything like that.

We're happy because they appeared in Fourze at roughly the same time they did in W. It took them about 10 episodes before they did anything of relevance other than hiding Saeko from Museum.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

Foundation X hadn't done a thing at episode 35 of W so you can't even point out anything like that.

We're happy because they appeared in Fourze at roughly the same time they did in W. It took them about 10 episodes before they did anything of relevance other than hiding Saeko from Museum.

thats a valid point, and while i agree to a certain extent i think its unlikely that Foundation X will become as integrated into Fourze's plot as they were in W's despite debuting later in W. And if the only scene FX gets in fourze is that 1, then i think they may as well not be there.

 

[Hell Kaiser Andy]

There's still 15 (If no pre-empted) episodes to go. They can easily be tied into a Horoscopes or the Fourze Movie (If it ends up canon like A to Z).

So anything is guesswork and current celebration over they appeared, making them the first proper connection between two series outside of Movie Wars and Decade.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

Also true, thats just my speculation, I dunno I just don't see any reason why the riders individual stories need to be tied together, i mean yeah it helps create a more cohesive world in ones imagination but i feel that people try to view it sort of like Star Wars (which obviously has a huge cohesive universe and a long documented history that is strongly adhered to usually) but i don't think it really works like that, and i personally enjoy the riders being separate as it allows each story to stand on its own merit and not have to be unfairly colored by the previous continuity.