Change in the Sentai/Rider format - how much and why?

Fourze is clearly recycling the W formula because its staff are almost 100% W alumni. Tsukada producing is the most obvious culprit for the concept recycling, but all of Fourze's three writers also contributed to W. I've been disappointed by the extent to which Fourze is W in a funny hat, to the point where I'm kind of glad we're getting a new head producer next year.

Takahashi might push some superficially W-like concepts on Utsunomiya (the way he clearly did on Takebe in OOO), but a different creator would ultimately end up interpret them differently. That said, the last Rider show Utsunomiya worked on was Kiva, so if Wizard ends up being a rehash of anything, I expect it to be that series.

I think at this point, it's time that we just let Tsukada stick to being the head producer for the "Kamen Rider Movie War" series........since it's clear he's the only head producer right now that can connect all of the post-W Rider series together into a crossover movie in perfect harmony.

Tsukada is starting to fall into the same trap as Shirakura himself fell into with the previous 10 Heisei Rider shows where his producing style is starting to grow stale with the audience.......which it is clearly being shown with Fourze in its re-use of the "W formula."

And the same can go for Riku Sanjo, Hasegawa and Nakashima.........it appears their writing styles for Fourze is starting to grow bland after they've rehashed previous concepts from W.

At this point, those 3 writers will become the new Inoue and Yonemura in a sense that they're writing styles will become very bland, uninteresting for the audience to want to be inspired to watch.
 
I wouldn't go that far. Inoue is like a whole other level of bad. I don't believe the W/Fourze production team could come up with something quite as awful as Kiva (Now watch them prove me wrong the series after Wizard ... LOL)
 
I wouldn't go that far. Inoue is like a whole other level of bad. I don't believe the W/Fourze production team could come up with something quite as awful as Kiva (Now watch them prove me wrong the series after Wizard ... LOL)

Inoue took about 15+ years for his "melodramatic writing style" to grow bland.......considering he managed to survive the entire 90s era and the first half of the Heisei Kamen Rider era with that writing style before breaking down and crashing with his writing on Kabuto, Kiva & Decade.

If we keep Sanjo and them around for a consistent basis, I believe the same thing will happen to them
 
And the same can go for Riku Sanjo, Hasegawa and Nakashima.........it appears their writing styles for Fourze is starting to grow bland after they've rehashed previous concepts from W.

At this point, those 3 writers will become the new Inoue and Yonemura in a sense that they're writing styles will become very bland, uninteresting for the audience to want to be inspired to watch.

Hahaha... No; W's trio isn't anything like Inoue at all.

before breaking down and crashing with his writing on Kabuto, Kiva & Decade.

You forgot Faiz and, I don't recall Inoue really doing that much on Decade. CMIIW but, he just wrote what, 2 arcs?
 
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I'm going to be honest. I like Fourze, and I've defended it all year against people complaining that it was too childish/stupid/whatever - but I haven't enjoyed it quite as much as I did W or OOO. And yet I still think it'll take a long time, if ever, before its production/writing team make anything as bad as Kiva. Kiva was basically a soap opera masquerading as Kamen Rider, with zero thought given to coherence or logic. That doesn't seem like the style of Tsukada et al.
 
Funny, I think that shows like OOO and Fourze target "3-5 year olds".

I am reasonably sure that Rider's target age range is a bit higher than Sentai's, just judging from the toys. I'd guess that Rider is more of a 6-11 show and be surprised if a producer said otherwise. Rider is also a lot more conscientious about including elements to appeal to its significant adult secondary demographics (toy collectors and housewives, respectively).

So it's not just children who didn't like those shows ...

We have absolutely no proof yet that Go-Busters does especially poorly with children. We just know that the standard ratings are low. We won't be able to say for sure that Kids aren't into Go-Busters until we get demographic breakdowns of the ratings.

3-5 years old? In other words, SS is aimed at an audience younger than PR, which is 6-11?

The toys absolutely are, which I imagine is why the PR line tends to reuse very little of the Japanese toy line these days. The actual writing of the shows, is... well, aspects of it are clearly hammering the 3-5 demographic, but there's a lot of things in the typical modern Sentai that would simply go over the target audience's heads.

I would guess Sentai can get away with this because it's a bit of a national institution, and a certain segment of adult viewers will always be curious about what the show's doing that year. That seems to be the segment of viewers that gets really excited by stuff like Shinkenger and Gokaiger, but tunes out of more kiddie or idol-oriented series.

You can't really pull a Kuuga on a franchise like Sentai.

People said that about Kamen Rider before Kuuga was made, too. Never say never. The right producer with the right creative staff and the right timing could probably get away with it.

I think at this point, it's time that we just let Tsukada stick to being the head producer for the "Kamen Rider Movie War" series........since it's clear he's the only head producer right now that can connect all of the post-W Rider series together into a crossover movie in perfect harmony.

I think it's more that Tsukada is the only producer thus far who really gives a **** about doing it. W makes it very clear that Tsukada felt Heisei Rider had strayed a bit too far from the franchise's roots, and goes out of his way to reintroduce many discarded Showa tropes (mooks, persistent worldsetting, multiple villain factions).

Takebe was a veteran of the "all movies are AUs" days and clearly just didn't care that much about what went on in them. As for Utsunomiya... well, who knows what his approach would be? I imagine it will be more along the lines of Tsukada's, though, judging from the nigh-obsessive use of continuity details in Gokaiger.

Tsukada is starting to fall into the same trap as Shirakura himself fell into with the previous 10 Heisei Rider shows where his producing style is starting to grow stale with the audience.......which it is clearly being shown with Fourze in its re-use of the "W formula."

I dunno. To be in Shirakura's ballpark, Tsukada would have to make the same show six or seven times, despite persistent diminishing returns. I would he's a bit cannier than that, and if he gets a third Rider series under his belt, he actually changes up the formula a bit more. Granted, I would also be just fine with Tsukada leaving the Rider franchise to work on Sentai after Fourze.

And the same can go for Riku Sanjo, Hasegawa and Nakashima.........it appears their writing styles for Fourze is starting to grow bland after they've rehashed previous concepts from W.

I don't think Nakashima is the problem... well, not directly, anyway. I think Nakashima's episodes generally do a good job of showing how Fourze has a very different feel and tone than W, for all that its plot skeleton is quite similar. I think the problem is that Nakashima has written rather fewer episodes of the show than one would expect. Sanjo and to a lesser extent Hasegawa's episodes do tend to feel rehashy, probably because they've already done their take on Tsukada's pet tropes.

At this point, those 3 writers will become the new Inoue and Yonemura in a sense that they're writing styles will become very bland, uninteresting for the audience to want to be inspired to watch.

I dunno. Again, to be in Inoue's ballpark, they would have to write basically the same plots about five times. I think Fourze would be much better off if Nakashima was writing more of the series, so I feel like Toei knows not to just blatantly make the same show over and over again now. I suspect Fourze's real problem is that Nakashima couldn't keep up with a year-long weekly schedule, and so more of the show than is desirable was written by Sanjo and Hasegawa.
 
People said that about Kamen Rider before Kuuga was made, too. Never say never. The right producer with the right creative staff and the right timing could probably get away with it.

I might have been too vague in what I said. I meant in the way that Kuuga came in from years without a series. And were an attempt to bright back Kamen Rider.
 
I might have been too vague in what I said. I meant in the way that Kuuga came in from years without a series.

It's not like it went into an empty time slot, though. Kuuga aired in a time slot where Toei had been airing Metal Hero for years... and remember that Metal Hero ended with the super-kiddie shows Kabutack and Robotack. Then we got a remake of super-kiddie Ishinomori property Robocon to fill the gap.

Then, boom, out of nowhere? Kuuga was doing moody quasi-realistic serial killer stories. In a timeslot that the week before had been airing this:

moerorobocon.avif

I don't think I can emphasize it enough: never say never. It can be really hard to understand Toei's creative decisions, save in hindsight.

And were an attempt to bright back Kamen Rider.

I don't think it was, at least not as a franchise. The creative decisions are all wrong for that. Kuuga feels more like "let's do a Rider series, we haven't made one of those for awhile," with the expectation that they'll make it and then probably go back to Metal Hero or other random shows the year after.

It's off the back of Kuuga's unexpectedly huge success that Toei commissions Agito. That series is really where the Heisei Rider franchise as we know it begins.
 
Then again. If we look at what people expect from a show, Kuuga was not really that daring.
When Black debuted back in the 80's, the show brought back a lot of the horror elements and depressive story-telling, which had not been seen much since the very first episodes of the original show.
Even Black RX had its share of scary monsters and sad moments.

Then came the movie trilogy, where J was pretty much the only "kid-friendly" of the bunch.

If you have grown up with re-runs of Black and had Shin, ZO and J tapes on your shelves, then the concept of Kuuga is really not that groundbreaking, except for the visuals.

My point with Go-Buster is that it can not even be compared with other "serious" Sentai shows such as Timeranger and Gekiranger. While these shows had a lot of "mature" stuff going on, they still added some silly things that could entertain the target audience.

Go-Buster has very very little of that. The only thing I can think of is Hiromu's fear of chickens.
I think it was originally intended to have the Buddyloids as the usual kid-friendly supporters, but the story does not really allow them to do much silly stuff. If you compare them to previous helpers in SS they are VERY dry.

I would compare going from Gokaiger to Go-Buster with going from V3 to Faiz. There is one heck of a difference when we are talking about the same franchise.
 
If you have grown up with re-runs of Black and had Shin, ZO and J tapes on your shelves, then the concept of Kuuga is really not that groundbreaking, except for the visuals.

Kuuga wasn't groundbreaking due to the atmosphere surrounding the monsters though, it was new due to the large focus on the real world around the hero and monsters, as well as drama with the supporting cast, only indirectly related to the main conflict, elements which previous series, or even Toei toku in general, had never focused upon.
 

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