Things I hate About Heisei Riders

[KR Hyper Kabuto]

How recent series always feature a bishounen. Nuff' said.

 

[MrMonk]

I've seen episodes of Kuuga and Agito. I was still interested that time, because I'm a Masked Rider fan. They're not perfect. At all. But they at least remotely have the Masked Rider spirit. I only saw two episodes of Ryuuki, and that was the last straw. That was where the Masked Rider series completely sold out.

Define the "Masked Rider Spirit".

Plus, the designs get uglier with each show.

Personal opinion. I find Kabuto and Faiz the best designs period.

They look just like the rejected conceptual designs from the earlier Heisei Rider movies Ishinomori himself did. There's trouble when Ishinomori's company gradually begins to lose control over the franchise. (Also because the company is having an inside struggle over its control. Not good.)

I feel (Tomino and Stan Lee - two other creators synonymous with what they created) that Ishinomori really had only one story in him, that he was rather adept at telling over and over again. I enjoyed the Showa Rider series I've seen, but I like the idea of someone else playing the song instead of the original conductor. "What can you do with this name, these themes?" The results may not be to everyone's liking, but the experiment is what matters to me.

Oh, Toho could make new hero shows . . . when they feel like it.

That is exactly the problem with the Heisei Rider Series. If teenage girls are the primary audience, Toei is alienating their other audience; kids and fans. And the toy sales are going down dramatically. When it's doing worse than Super Sentai is now (which is below even Ultraman and Rescue Force), you know there's problems.

They are? Once again, Den-O points otherwise.

How recent series always feature a bishounen. Nuff' said.

Depending on how you look at it, only 3 of the 9 are really bishonen. A third. But that's really fuzzy. What's pretty to some isn't pretty to others. Kabuto/Den-O/Kiva are definitely ikemen, but Decade is a bit of a stretch, as were the rest. (for some reason, people tend to forget that Odagiri wasn't very ripped or manly - he played a super fey samurai in Azumi for God's sake) Hibiki was probably the most "manly" of the Heisei Era.

 

[Shougo B'Stard]

Depending on how you look at it, only 3 of the 9 are really bishonen. A third. But that's really fuzzy. What's pretty to some isn't pretty to others. Kabuto/Den-O/Kiva are definitely ikemen, but Decade is a bit of a stretch, as were the rest. (for some reason, people tend to forget that Odagiri wasn't very ripped or manly - he played a super fey samurai in Azumi for God's sake) Hibiki was probably the most "manly" of the Heisei Era.

Well, 2000 was what's referred to by the Japanese as the "ikemen boom," mostly thanks to Odagiri. Joe and the Timeranger guys caught the attention of women, and that's how this whole mess came about, to where Toei started casting entire shows with these types of guys who would help sell photobooks to the housewives. So they'd cast former models like Toshiki Kashuu and Shigeki Hosokawa, the bishonen looking ones like Takamasa Suga and Hiro Mizushima. And there's the fact that Toei cast somebody as awful as Kento Handa just because he sorta looks like Takuya Kimura.

The problem is Toei used to at least care if they fit the role and were talented. Odagiri, Kashuu, Suga, Hosokawa -- they had the looks, but also had talent and fit their roles. Can't say the same for most of the other guys, especially Handa and Seto.

 

[Igadevil]

I get sick of hearing people bitch about how "un-Ishinomori-like" some of the new Rider shows are, especially when most of those shows have a lot more to offer than a lot of those older series' that people are so stuck up about. Change in itself is not a negative quality; as happy as you may be with the formula, almost every single one of the pre-80's Rider shows were almost exactly the same. Why see the same thing over and over again when you can get some fresh ideas?

See, I've never gotten that thing about them all being the same. I'll admit V3 plays closely by the original series book early on, but when you consider what it was going to be originally (episodes #99, 100, and so on) that sorta makes sense. And even then, there's still a load of differences. After that it gets even more diverse- in fact I'd say V3 has more in common with Hibiki than it does with Stronger, because at least two of those shows are about the good guys being centralized and having a support network for dealing with the bad guys, whereas the other one is the heroes taking the ultimate roadtrip. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but that's how I look at it.

There's stylistic similarties, but the new shows have those going on as well. I mean okay, there's *lot* of scientists getting kidnapped between 1971 and 1975. But the new shows are basically doing the same things in their own way- how many times has the monster of the week's motivation been "kill people?" (This isn't a critique on them, I'm just citing a very broad generalization, because there's a lot of variables I'm overlooking, I know.) There's similar themes, but I think Kamen Rider should have some themes that run throughout the different series. I think I've gone off on a long-ass rant about that before- lonliness, isolation, inhumanity, rising above you situation. Stuff like that, I see it in the old shows and in the new ones.

The old shows are sticking with a formula, but it's basically the exact same formula of the new shows, and a lot of other Toku (heroes fight monsters and save people.) Despite all this there is still a lot of diversity among the old shows. Maybe it's more subtle, maybe the viewer has to work more to find it. All I know is, I've watched the 70's Riders over more times than I have the later ones, and it never feels like the exact same thing, even if the basic premise is similar. There's always a twist, there's always something that keeps it fresh. It does feel like part of the same overarching franchise, but I get that watching the new stuff too.

I get what you're trying to say. I agree that there's a lot of needless complaining, to the point that it's gotten ridiculous. Change is good, but I'm just saying Kamen Rider's always been changing anyway. Every series feels like something different and exciting, at least to me.

 

[Bolt]

You have without a doubt the most thoughtful insight into the inner-workings of a Kamen Rider series though. For someone like myself, a more casual fan, I see forumulas being repeated in the classic shows and new formulas being created and repeated in newer series'. I guess my question is why expect a classic formula to always be carried over? That makes every new series that premiers that much less creative.

I especially take issue with the animal motif complaint, about the Riders not being "bug based." Where in the name "Kamen/Masked Rider" does it say anything about insects? I think that's a pretty copout complaint for not liking a show like Ryuuki or Hibiki. What I see is people not wanting to give shows a chance because their perception of what is "normal" has been shaken up.

 

[ryuuseipro]

You have without a doubt the most thoughtful insight into the inner-workings of a Kamen Rider series though. For someone like myself, a more casual fan, I see forumulas being repeated in the classic shows and new formulas being created and repeated in newer series'. I guess my question is why expect a classic formula to always be carried over? That makes every new series that premiers that much less creative.

I especially take issue with the animal motif complaint, about the Riders not being "bug based." Where in the name "Kamen/Masked Rider" does it say anything about insects? I think that's a pretty copout complaint for not liking a show like Ryuuki or Hibiki. What I see is people not wanting to give shows a chance because their perception of what is "normal" has been shaken up.

That's kind of funny, because Amazon is my personal favorite Masked Rider (even if in name only). And he's not even an insect, much less a cyborg! (He's a sort-of mutant, like Inazuman.)

I don't mind a non-insect motif, but what I do mind is seeing beefy Metal Heroes under a different name. (This sort of started with Agito, who had a much beefier costume.) I'm more used to the slimmer, sleeker Spidey-like Showa Riders. For me, simpler is better.

The problem I've always had with the Heisei Riders is the same problem I've had with newer Super Sentai; It's just plain convoluted, and there's nothing straightforward about it. Too many Riders to sell toys, when they could've saved them for their own series. Just like Super Sentai, Toei runs it into the ground.

See, I HATE newer Toei Superhero shows for a reason. Toei has become so cynical. Just as bad as, or maybe worse than Toho's been with Godzilla lately. It just cannot be my concern.

*sigh* I can't go on.

I'll tell you what; as a consequence, I'll stop ranting about these shows like some jaded old fogey, and just move on. Arguing over personal taste is agreeably pointless. Besides, some really good friends here are fans of the Heisei Rider Series, and we can respectfully agree to disagree. If it's not my concern, I shouldn't even talk about it (much less think about it).

 

[KingRanger]

but what I do mind is seeing beefy Metal Heroes under a different name.

Explain Kamen Rider Stronger then.

 

[prometheus126]

you see, I see this entire arguement as something I usually see in other fandoms I've been a part of. it's not really in a sence the heisei rider shows that people are complaining about, it's more on the fact that newer fans are coming in and enjoying those shows and they feel the need to be somehow narrower int their viewing of the show. this isn't always true with every single fan who says their "hardcore" fans but you see it alot in alot of different fandoms.
take RPG,s for example, I remember when Final fantasy 7 came out and there was a flood of newer fans. being a fan of the series since the nes days, I became a hard critic on the never rpg games and my complaints were usually sorta pathetic "it's not fantasy, it's sci-fi, why not call it final sci-fi 7!?" I had other complaints that were more valid but I hope you see my point. any anime fans here? remember back in the day when people used to hate of fans of Dragon Ball Z for basically no other reason but because it was popular? what happened to that? now, it's fine but theres the newly coined term "narutard" all around.
what I'm trying to say is that, I think this is sorta less about the shows themselves but more about the fans of the shows. I mean, the newer shows might have more indepth plots to them but seriously, can you say they are more fun to watch then the showa era shows? I personaly can't and I thinks thats extremely important in a show like tokusatsus. complaints are valid untill they just become nitpicking and stupid. though I don't personally like the show all that much , can you denie the ishinomori style of story-telling of hibiki just because he didn't have bug-eyes? can you really say that one of your complaints is that "there are no female riders" when tackle was everything but a rider!? are you seriously going to deny a great character like godai was just because he wasn't manly like hongo or kotaro? then you'd be no worse then a newer fan who won't watch V3 because it looks cheesy.
I don't know, I've always concidered myself a middle-ground fan with anything nowadays, I don't wished to be a "hardcore" fan but I somehow get to know more then a "softcore" fan would. I always state to let something win or fail on it's own ground rather then grossly generalize everything someone feels wrong with a genre. does den-o have anything to do with Kiva or Kabuto? no, not really but other people would say differently.
I'll probably get flack for what I say but I really don't care. what some people say about a show I enjoy doesn't really bother me in the slightest but I just wanted say what I thought and what usually happens in fandoms in general with things like this. I think the complaints sometimes with heisei rider shows are valid but usually are made into something bigger then it really is. I mean, when someone tells me the reason why kiva sucks is because he doesn't ride a bike all that much and looks past most of the other parts that made kiva good, then you're just being biased. I will say it as I always said it that a show must be really concidered by itself rather then the group it's in and I'm sticking by it.

 

[Ryuutaros]

you see, I see this entire arguement as something I usually see in other fandoms I've been a part of. it's not really in a sence the heisei rider shows that people are complaining about, it's more on the fact that newer fans are coming in and enjoying those shows and they feel the need to be somehow narrower int their viewing of the show. this isn't always true with every single fan who says their "hardcore" fans but you see it alot in alot of different fandoms.
take RPG,s for example, I remember when Final fantasy 7 came out and there was a flood of newer fans. being a fan of the series since the nes days, I became a hard critic on the never rpg games and my complaints were usually sorta pathetic "it's not fantasy, it's sci-fi, why not call it final sci-fi 7!?" I had other complaints that were more valid but I hope you see my point. any anime fans here? remember back in the day when people used to hate of fans of Dragon Ball Z for basically no other reason but because it was popular? what happened to that? now, it's fine but theres the newly coined term "narutard" all around.
what I'm trying to say is that, I think this is sorta less about the shows themselves but more about the fans of the shows. I mean, the newer shows might have more indepth plots to them but seriously, can you say they are more fun to watch then the showa era shows? I personaly can't and I thinks thats extremely important in a show like tokusatsus. complaints are valid untill they just become nitpicking and stupid. though I don't personally like the show all that much , can you denie the ishinomori style of story-telling of hibiki just because he didn't have bug-eyes? can you really say that one of your complaints is that "there are no female riders" when tackle was everything but a rider!? are you seriously going to deny a great character like godai was just because he wasn't manly like hongo or kotaro? then you'd be no worse then a newer fan who won't watch V3 because it looks cheesy.
I don't know, I've always concidered myself a middle-ground fan with anything nowadays, I don't wished to be a "hardcore" fan but I somehow get to know more then a "softcore" fan would. I always state to let something win or fail on it's own ground rather then grossly generalize everything someone feels wrong with a genre. does den-o have anything to do with Kiva or Kabuto? no, not really but other people would say differently.
I'll probably get flack for what I say but I really don't care. what some people say about a show I enjoy doesn't really bother me in the slightest but I just wanted say what I thought and what usually happens in fandoms in general with things like this. I think the complaints sometimes with heisei rider shows are valid but usually are made into something bigger then it really is. I mean, when someone tells me the reason why kiva sucks is because he doesn't ride a bike all that much and looks past most of the other parts that made kiva good, then you're just being biased. I will say it as I always said it that a show must be really concidered by itself rather then the group it's in and I'm sticking by it.

Holy **** give China it's wall back dude



:redface2:

 

[Bolt]

I don't mind a non-insect motif, but what I do mind is seeing beefy Metal Heroes under a different name. (This sort of started with Agito, who had a much beefier costume.) I'm more used to the slimmer, sleeker Spidey-like Showa Riders.

You're right. Beefy is a sin. Low-budget or bust!

*sigh* I can't go on.

Why are you taking this whole issue so seriously? If you don't like the shows, don't watch them (which I assume is what you've been doing anyway... which pretty much nullifies your argument, doesn't it?).