The Original Star Wars Trilogy
- Thread starter Inui Takumi
- Start date
zodaex
Zodasaur
What's wrong with a nostalgia? Nostalgia is what makes these movies enjoyable now.
Forever Knight
Eye See You
It's all about nostalgia but also accepting change. These guys here remind me of the folk who refused condom updates.
KingRanger
Banned
Why should people accept change in something they enjoyed? I mean say you like a good burger. I put a cup of **** on it. By your logic you would still eat it cause you know.. change and stuff.
Daikamonohashi
Member
Allow me to reiterate a few things since you don't seem to be paying attention.
You already like the special editions so you're probably not going to care about the new changes but those of us who really care about the integrity of the ORIGINAL WORK - the work that entranced multiple generations for up to TWO DECADES before any substantial changes were made in '97 - we're merely "nostalgia sluts?" Is it not a fair stance to complain that the versions that made Lucas a superstar in the first place are being purged from the public eye in favor of something that is decidedly NOT the thing we knew and loved? This is not about being a fan of Star Wars, either, it is about the protection of the integrity of an artwork.
No but...
...they did. The most glaring change is Greedo shooting first. It's a small change that has HUGE repercussions within the film. In the original film, Han Solo is a fucking pirate who would kill someone in cold blood to save his own skin. For the rest of the film you wonder if he's really one of the good guys or if he's just a guy doing a job who got caught up in the action and just wants to get out of it and away to some easy money and right before the final battle, yeah, that's what it seems like. He's going to take the money and run. But, as we all know, his conscience gets the better of him and he returns to help save the day. If, as in the new cut, he shoots in self-defense, that strips away a layer of that previous ruthlessness and diminishes the impact of his fundamental character arc.
Then there are the changes that futz with the pacing, such as Jabba's insertion into the original film. Firstly, it ruins the mystery of who the hell this Jabba the Hutt character is (which culminates in a great "WTF IS that THING?!" reveal in Return of the Jedi), as well as taking away some of his menace as we see Han - literally and figuratively - walking all over him but let's ignore those facts for a second. Instead, let's consider that the scene HAS NO NARRATIVE POINT. The Greedo scene from less than five minutes before covers EVERYTHING that the Jabba scene covers, making the latter nothing more than dead weight.
Same thing happens with Empire, although this time a brand new scene was constructed for it. In the original cut, near the end of the film, Vader is marching out a door and says, in the most angry tone you probably EVER hear Vader speak in, "Bring my shuttle." Short and sweet and WONDERFUL. And then we get right back to the parallel action of Lando and Leia rescuing Luke. It all flows very naturally.
In the special edition, they switch Vader's line to a really dull one about alerting his Star Destroyer about-blah blah blah. It's very matter-of-fact in its delivery and does NOT suit the scene well at all. But let's stick to talking about the pacing. After this moment, the film GRINDS TO A HALT so we can see Vader board his shuttle, then fly up to the Executor, then land in the Death Star II hanger bay stock footage. Why the hell did we have to go through all that crap? I think we get what happened without seeing it. It's pointless and stupid and it kills the pacing of the scene.
There are plenty of changes that, yeah, are just minor alterations that are really more about personal preference - more Wampa footage, blinking Ewoks, etc. but there are a good handful - like the ones above - that DO screw with the movies in notable ways.
No. Believe it or not, they might just be legitimately good movies.
Okay, this is really backwards logic. Firstly, we're talking about a work of art that has been beloved by the public for decades, not a practical apparatus. If Akira Kurosawa came back from the grave to re-edit Seven Samurai and add CGI blood or somesuch nonsense, should we just have to accept that? Or if Da Vinci decided to alter the Mona Lisa to have a big dopey grin instead of her famous smile? And then if either of these creators forcibly removed all copies of the original version, we just have to deal with that? No, that's just not how art works. Art is a dialogue between the creator and the viewer and a HUGE part of what makes a piece what it is comes from the reaction and appreciation of its viewers. Once a work of art is made public, it, in a sense, becomes the property of the public. Lucas can edit it all he pleases but just as he has that right, the public has a right to choose the original cuts of Star Wars instead.
Let's not forget that these films were AMAZING to begin with. I mean, look at how visually glorious they are WITHOUT any of the extra CGI additions! These films were stunning products of an era before the advent of CGI and the fact that these films are almost entirely practical in their FX work make them that much more impressive than the prequels on a visual basis alone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is, well, not someone I'm really interested in talking to.
ADDITIONALLY, the original trilogy is so wonderful because it is the work of a giant, collective effort of creative minds, not JUST George Lucas. Remember, he only directed the first of the three films and a lot of the really memorable moments came from other people, not Lucas. The really fun character banter in the first film, for example, were the results of a heavy rewrite of the script performed by Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck (you can basically thank them for C-3PO and R2-D2, among other things) and memorable lines like Solo's "I know," (Empire) were improvised on set. So, again, George can screw around with the films as much as he wants but to withhold the original cuts of the films is spitting in the faces of all these people who worked to make the movie a reality. None of those examples hold water for you? What about the big middle finger to Sebastian Shaw by replacing him with Hayden "Cardboard" Christensen in Jedi? Or replacing Jason Wingreen's Boba Fett voice?
Again, I say, if Ridley Scott can release his preferred cut of Blade Runner alongside four other versions of that film, or Terry Gilliam can release his version of Brazil with the theatrical cut he positively HATES on the same DVD, why can't Lucas release the original versions of these films that made the world fall in love with Star Wars to begin with?
You already like the special editions so you're probably not going to care about the new changes but those of us who really care about the integrity of the ORIGINAL WORK - the work that entranced multiple generations for up to TWO DECADES before any substantial changes were made in '97 - we're merely "nostalgia sluts?" Is it not a fair stance to complain that the versions that made Lucas a superstar in the first place are being purged from the public eye in favor of something that is decidedly NOT the thing we knew and loved? This is not about being a fan of Star Wars, either, it is about the protection of the integrity of an artwork.
No but...
...they did. The most glaring change is Greedo shooting first. It's a small change that has HUGE repercussions within the film. In the original film, Han Solo is a fucking pirate who would kill someone in cold blood to save his own skin. For the rest of the film you wonder if he's really one of the good guys or if he's just a guy doing a job who got caught up in the action and just wants to get out of it and away to some easy money and right before the final battle, yeah, that's what it seems like. He's going to take the money and run. But, as we all know, his conscience gets the better of him and he returns to help save the day. If, as in the new cut, he shoots in self-defense, that strips away a layer of that previous ruthlessness and diminishes the impact of his fundamental character arc.
Then there are the changes that futz with the pacing, such as Jabba's insertion into the original film. Firstly, it ruins the mystery of who the hell this Jabba the Hutt character is (which culminates in a great "WTF IS that THING?!" reveal in Return of the Jedi), as well as taking away some of his menace as we see Han - literally and figuratively - walking all over him but let's ignore those facts for a second. Instead, let's consider that the scene HAS NO NARRATIVE POINT. The Greedo scene from less than five minutes before covers EVERYTHING that the Jabba scene covers, making the latter nothing more than dead weight.
Same thing happens with Empire, although this time a brand new scene was constructed for it. In the original cut, near the end of the film, Vader is marching out a door and says, in the most angry tone you probably EVER hear Vader speak in, "Bring my shuttle." Short and sweet and WONDERFUL. And then we get right back to the parallel action of Lando and Leia rescuing Luke. It all flows very naturally.
In the special edition, they switch Vader's line to a really dull one about alerting his Star Destroyer about-blah blah blah. It's very matter-of-fact in its delivery and does NOT suit the scene well at all. But let's stick to talking about the pacing. After this moment, the film GRINDS TO A HALT so we can see Vader board his shuttle, then fly up to the Executor, then land in the Death Star II hanger bay stock footage. Why the hell did we have to go through all that crap? I think we get what happened without seeing it. It's pointless and stupid and it kills the pacing of the scene.
There are plenty of changes that, yeah, are just minor alterations that are really more about personal preference - more Wampa footage, blinking Ewoks, etc. but there are a good handful - like the ones above - that DO screw with the movies in notable ways.
No. Believe it or not, they might just be legitimately good movies.
Okay, this is really backwards logic. Firstly, we're talking about a work of art that has been beloved by the public for decades, not a practical apparatus. If Akira Kurosawa came back from the grave to re-edit Seven Samurai and add CGI blood or somesuch nonsense, should we just have to accept that? Or if Da Vinci decided to alter the Mona Lisa to have a big dopey grin instead of her famous smile? And then if either of these creators forcibly removed all copies of the original version, we just have to deal with that? No, that's just not how art works. Art is a dialogue between the creator and the viewer and a HUGE part of what makes a piece what it is comes from the reaction and appreciation of its viewers. Once a work of art is made public, it, in a sense, becomes the property of the public. Lucas can edit it all he pleases but just as he has that right, the public has a right to choose the original cuts of Star Wars instead.
Let's not forget that these films were AMAZING to begin with. I mean, look at how visually glorious they are WITHOUT any of the extra CGI additions! These films were stunning products of an era before the advent of CGI and the fact that these films are almost entirely practical in their FX work make them that much more impressive than the prequels on a visual basis alone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is, well, not someone I'm really interested in talking to.
ADDITIONALLY, the original trilogy is so wonderful because it is the work of a giant, collective effort of creative minds, not JUST George Lucas. Remember, he only directed the first of the three films and a lot of the really memorable moments came from other people, not Lucas. The really fun character banter in the first film, for example, were the results of a heavy rewrite of the script performed by Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck (you can basically thank them for C-3PO and R2-D2, among other things) and memorable lines like Solo's "I know," (Empire) were improvised on set. So, again, George can screw around with the films as much as he wants but to withhold the original cuts of the films is spitting in the faces of all these people who worked to make the movie a reality. None of those examples hold water for you? What about the big middle finger to Sebastian Shaw by replacing him with Hayden "Cardboard" Christensen in Jedi? Or replacing Jason Wingreen's Boba Fett voice?
Again, I say, if Ridley Scott can release his preferred cut of Blade Runner alongside four other versions of that film, or Terry Gilliam can release his version of Brazil with the theatrical cut he positively HATES on the same DVD, why can't Lucas release the original versions of these films that made the world fall in love with Star Wars to begin with?
Forever Knight
Eye See You
Ok... So i'm going to watch the Blu-rays. I'll return with thoughts on everything.
Like i said... if these changes don't ruin and destroy my life like they did for many of you... God have mercy on you crying fucks. If they do, then I'll admit defeat.
What YOU think is a cup of **** maybe someone else likes?. You really don't practice what you preach eh.
Like i said... if these changes don't ruin and destroy my life like they did for many of you... God have mercy on you crying fucks. If they do, then I'll admit defeat.
What YOU think is a cup of **** maybe someone else likes?. You really don't practice what you preach eh.
Daikamonohashi
Member
As expected, you didn't read a word I said. Oh well, unsurprising.
Forever Knight
Eye See You
I stopped after the first sentence because I don't care.
Daikamonohashi
Member
Well then stop judging us if you're not even going to pay proper attention to what we have to say.
Ah, Forever Knight, you truly are the champion of backwards logic. If you think the cup of **** tastes like a stack of bacon and cheese, then more power to you. KingRanger is saying that the changes were a cup of **** on OUR awesome burgers. Mayhaps it is you who doesn't practice what they preach. :|
Ah, Forever Knight, you truly are the champion of backwards logic. If you think the cup of **** tastes like a stack of bacon and cheese, then more power to you. KingRanger is saying that the changes were a cup of **** on OUR awesome burgers. Mayhaps it is you who doesn't practice what they preach. :|
Forever Knight
Eye See You
This topic is something we should fight about.
Now can I watch these fucking movies in peace without you acting like a fly that doesn't know how to exit through a window?.
Now can I watch these fucking movies in peace without you acting like a fly that doesn't know how to exit through a window?.
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