So I finally finished Kabuto

[KingRanger]

If you believe that last sentence, that shows you didn't read what I wrote.

The rest, I'll respectfully disagree with... for already stated reasons.

I have. And you contradict yourself quite a bit regarding Kabuto. Sometimes I see you say the writing was bad and others you commend it. Sometimes you say the story was great and at other times you say it had faults. I am sorry, but I am confused about your over all stance on the show.

 

[KingRanger]

I think the writers had two ideas in mind, but then carelessly threw them in together. .

I think about half way in Kabuto become nothing more than the writes tossing in random stuff.

 

[Keith Justice]

Ahha.



You just spelled out the basic routine for toku finales. That doesn't say anything about whether or not they're actually well written.

Execution, pretty much. I really didn't feel I got that kind of a satisfying conclusion with Ryuki and Faiz.

You don't take a character that suffered a loss and had a motive of vengeance, and turn him into moronic comic relief. You just don't do that. Whatever plot Tsurugi could have had was dropped the moment he went to play Cupid and other stupid things. Fine, he had a "relationship" with an oder woman. Big whoop. It did nothing in the long run. I don't know what the hell the writers were thinking with Tsurugi.

Like I said, I think they were thinking, "Man... this show is about 20 episodes too long." As for whatever plot was dropped for Tsurugi when he turned into a joke... very much disagree. The spot of him turning into a joke doesn't negate his pretty incredible finale.

If you admit the show faltered, then it can't be so "godly awesome". So your Kabuto praise makes no sense.

Only a fool would think anything is perfect and without fault. But a man, can see the good in the whole... I think my grandmother told me this.

The nature of humanity? The "who is the man, who is the monster" question? Not all "heroes" are men in white suits?

Meeeehhhh.... that's a pretty cliche and cut and dry question with an obvious answer. Not much philosophy or much to mentally chew on...

The origins of Tendou's belt. The nature of his parents' death. Hiyori's drawings....

I would have loved it to be more spelled out, but there's enough hint dropped to figure it out. What about her drawings?

Examples of just how retarded Kabuto Rider fights were:

Tendou (after Daisuke got tricked by Muscaworm): Worms are your enemy. They're deceitful. Remember that. (Not his exact words, but that is the gist of it)

Daisuke: What you say is true.... but I don't like it! RRAAAAAAAWWWRR! RIDER BATTLE!!

----------------------

Tsurugi: Worms are my prey. Go away.

Tendou: No

Tsurugi: DIE! RIDER BATTLE!! (all the while they let the Worm get away)

----------------------

(Kagami prevents Tendou from killing Tsurugi)

Tendou: What are you doing?

Does Kagami at least try to explain? No, he goes..... RIDER BATTLE!!

Now if you want to claim Kabuto was a parody of Rider-Rider battles, that's one thing. But it wasn't. It actually took itself seriously while pulling this tripe.

Gunslinger/samurai warrior mentality... that's not random that's a warriors way to communicate their convictions through their fists.

But you can see them as random... whatev.

Then what's the point in making him a Rider? You could have made him just another supporting character and nothing would have changed. We don't even know how or why he is a Rider. He never tries to investigate the meanin behind his power and the role he has in the scheme of things. He may not have wanted to be a Rider, but guess what? Neither did a lot of the Showa Riders. Yet they still made some commitment to the cause. Daisuke runs around doing Ultimate Makeup contests.

I would have liked more explanation, but I'll forgive it, because of the excellent stories his character yielded.

Now that makes no sense....

Context and execution make no sense to you? Oh well. :anime:

What's not to get? I have heard that the Faiz battles were supposed to mimic street brawls.

Ah.... hmm..... Faiz battles........ hm. I do remember him getting his belt knocked off.... a lot.

 

[Keith Justice]

I have. And you contradict yourself quite a bit regarding Kabuto. Sometimes I see you say the writing was bad and others you commend it. Sometimes you say the story was great and at other times you say it had faults. I am sorry, but I am confused about your over all stance on the show.

I've said it's had some bad plotting, but not bad writing. Some plotting calls where definitely not the best, but... *shrugs*

I think what you're not getting is my loving something that has faults.

Kabuto being perfection would be ignorant. Saying that its faults aside, it managed to present one helluva Rider series is what I've been saying all along.

 

[NeonZ]

I have. More than I can count.

But the moment Tendou makes the remark about "Natives that mimicked my parents gave me the belt", all that got thrown out the window. It lost all meaning.

No, you haven't commented this last point... in fact, you just ignored it again.

Here it goes... again... In the episode right before the last one, it's shown that Tendo's memories of the day of the meteor fall aren't reliable. So, his whole story about receiving the belt from his native parents as they die is thrown into question.

In that episode, when he is under rocks after being defeated by Kagami, the flashback plays out again, only he's shown attempting to rescue Hiyori and reach her hand without the belt scene that he described to Kagami, but failing to do so until a light covers everything and the image disappears.

First we're given that Tendou (who is in fact wearing the belt) tries to attack them but stops after seeing Hiyori beg him not to, then we're supposed to swallow that he accepts a gift from his parents' killers.

Even ignoring the fact that the flashback was shown to be wrong afterwards, he obviously didn't kill them and accepted the belt due to Hiyori. He was completely devoted to her and anything bad happening to her easily broke his cool in the present. I don't see how it's hard to believe he wouldn't kill some people if she asked him to do that, especially considering how it seemed like they were going to die.

Anyway, the parents still weren't a contradiction. Even if you think it's bad writing, there's nothing related to his parents (besides receiving the belt from them) that creates any problems. You basically listed the same scene twice with different names.

EVEN the stuff regarding the belt just hurts foreshadowing. Yes, sure, if GSL were canon, Hiyori's drawings would be much more meaningful and Tendo wouldn't just be spewing empty words when he said that the belt came from the sun, but there's nothing stopping her from drawing some imaginary figure even without GSL nor anything stopping Tendo from considering the belt his own after having it for so many years, even if he received from someone else, so it's not a contradiction.

It IS bad handling of foreshadowing, but it doesn't create a true plothole (unlike the Delta belt in Faiz, which gave special abilities to its human users, but that element completely disappeared when they recovered it later in the series without any explanation).

 

[Black Fang]

Like I said, I think they were thinking, "Man... this show is about 20 episodes too long."

Or they were swamped with Bandai's merchandise quota and ouldn't write a story around them. Or they just couldn't be bothered to produce any quality material. Or a combo of both.

As for whatever plot was dropped for Tsurugi when he turned into a joke... very much disagree. The spot of him turning into a joke doesn't negate his pretty incredible finale.

Yes, it was "Hey this guy actually has a dog in the game! What the hell are we doing making him a clown?! Let's get back on track here, gang! Put down the reefer now!"

Only a fool would think anything is perfect and without fault. But a man, can see the good in the whole... I think my grandmother told me this.

Grandma Tendou's words won't help you here.

I would have loved it to be more spelled out, but there's enough hint dropped to figure it out. What about her drawings?[/QUOTES]

Yes, hints that are dropped in and then made obsolete later. Yes, that's brilliant scriptwriting there. I think you should go back and pay more attention to what was really going on and how badly things got fumbled.

Gunslinger/samurai warrior mentality... that's not random that's a warriors way to communicate their convictions through their fists.

Go out and try that. See what happens, then get back to me.

Go look at Agito and Ryuki for truly good Rider-Rider battles that actually have reason to them.

Context and execution make no sense to you? Oh well. :anime:

It makes no sense here. What was the difference in the shows regarding them? Not much. This looks more like your own bias against Den-O talking here.

 

[nerefir]

Ah it's so refreshing to see a thread like this that doesn't degrade into immature Den-O bashing. :thumbs:

 

[Keith Justice]

That's because I'm involved and can shrug it off if someone disagrees with me. :thumbs:

 

[ShoutaroJoker]

This is how I see it.... Kabuto started off to be a promising series. Action was good, designs kicked ass, loved the cast, everything about it.... but half way it just fell apart. Like kingranger said before, they pretty much shafted Drake and Sasword... and I absolutely hate how they handled TheBee.

If I had it my way, I would've kept Kagami as TheBee because I thought it matched him pretty well for those couple of episodes.

However, I thought turning Sasword into comic relief was brilliant. He was the only reason why I tuned in to watch the rest of the series. Kabuto was starting to be too serious just for the sake of being serious and I felt that he lightened mood that was much needed.

 

[Seven Year Itch]

Ah it's so refreshing to see a thread like this that doesn't degrade into immature Den-O bashing. :thumbs:

well...it's never too late to start.