Question about Sub-Groups

Actually, I haven't begun to turn away from TV-N. Hell, they're the reason I got into Sentai, and more recently Kamen Rider.

My first introduction to the Japanese stuff was Dekaranger. Was pointed to them as the place to go, and that was that. Now the Toku fandom in the US has blown up to the point there are other fansub groups, and not just TV-N.

The only thing I wish TV-N would do would be to calm down over their release schedule. They have so much **** on their plate right now, that it's hard to absorb some of the new stuff when they release it.

Forever Knight said:

The actual issue I have is for other sub groups that re-sub shows that have been subbed. Ultraman Tiga for example.... we have it subbed, why do another sub?. If all the groups worked together we'd have much more Tokusatsu subbed than we have now. Then again if someone doesn't like TVN Gokaiger subs they always have the option of the GUIS subs. So it does kind of work both ways. Fortunately it's something I don't lose sleep over.

But that's just my opinion.

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The recent Tiga subs are actually rips of the Funimation set put to better video quality.

Forever Knight said:

The actual issue I have is for other sub groups that re-sub shows that have been subbed. Ultraman Tiga for example.... we have it subbed, why do another sub?. If all the groups worked together we'd have much more Tokusatsu subbed than we have now. Then again if someone doesn't like TVN Gokaiger subs they always have the option of the GUIS subs. So it does kind of work both ways. Fortunately it's something I don't lose sleep over.

But that's just my opinion.

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Yea man, I feel the exact same way.

Gotta understand: They're big, they've been in business a long time, they have a large fanbase, and they're pretty darn easy to get stuff from. I remember when I wanted to download some OoZ subs...think it was Agito....and it was slightly confusing and annoying at first to get to their downloads section. TV-N is just a few clicks and torrent. It's popular, it's easy, it's got a strong following. If people are to be converted, one has to offer an appealing alternative. It's kinda like iPod syndrome. Not all MP3 players are iPods. You just have to be patient and show people the alternatives. If they go back to the 800-pound gorilla, well that's their choice.

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I can totally understand the problems you've had with OoZ, I could never really get to their downloads section myself. Luckily, they're really the only group that does, everyone just seems to post the releases on their blogs with multiple download links.

So here's what I ask from people who are TV-N's detractors: I recognize these problems. I see that they are issues. The six million dollar question is: where should I go from here? Is there a group out there that's user-friendly enough, with clean/virus-free and easy downloads that I as well as others can partake in? If TV-N is a problem, what group(s) can be used as an alternative/solution?

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There are plenty of groups out there that serve as great alternatives to TV-N. You said one of the problems with TV-N is they spread themselves too thin on certain shows, but they aren't the only ones doing it. MidnightCrew Subs have finished Kuuga and are doing a few other projects. KuugaInvestigationTeam is another great option, though at the moment they're only doing older shows, so that might be a problem for certain people that aren't into that. What I love about them is that they're actually tackling the original Kamen Rider show and making amazing headway on it.

Of course this is all essentially just talk, the ultimate choice is up to you. I would recommend going to the Media Matrix as a lot of fansub groups do post there often enough and you can get an idea of who is doing what and check their styles out.

Though I will admit that the arguments in there can be pretty taxing to read through when it's often the same stuff being said over and over, it does make for an interesting read the first time around.

And just tossing it out again, KuugaInvestigationTeam rocks, they're hands down my favorite group out there at the moment not just for the shows they do but for their easy to read and logical style.

Sounds like I need to look into KuugaInvestigationTeam. Aoi, can you or anyone else compile a short list of some of the better TV-Nihon fansub alternatives and the notable projects they're working on?

There's a thread asking the same thing in the media matrix, probably on page 2 or 3 by now.

Bolt said:

If they are wrong, it can't be that grievous.

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Sometimes they are. It really depends on the show's vocabulary level. There's an episode of PGSM where TVN has Tuxedo Mask saying he doesn't have any powers... a few episodes before the plot is all about his special powers! What he actually said is that he doesn't have the same powers that a Sailor Guardian does, which is pretty relevant to his role later in the story.

Another example of TVN botching things fairly badly is the second episode of Kamen Rider Hibiki, where the entire point of the episode and some crucial exposition got somehow lost in the original translation. The fixed KITSubs version is very different and, well, actually has a point. In some cases, the whole point of retranslation efforts is to find and correct errors like this.

Generally TVN does better with simpler, more straightforward shows. This is true of most fan-run sub groups that release a show as it airs in Japan. It's hard to keep a release completely free of errors when you're figuring things out on a week-to-week basis. Most of the TVN releases people are correcting now are older ones where, over time, the flaws have become very clear.

This is typical of any fandom where there's a relatively small amount of canon series that can be relatively difficult to translate. Fans have more time to scrutinize the translations that exist. Gundam has several anime and manga series that have been translated three or more times each by fans, each time to correct errors in the last version.

Bolt said:

Sounds like I need to look into KuugaInvestigationTeam. Aoi, can you or anyone else compile a short list of some of the better TV-Nihon fansub alternatives and the notable projects they're working on?

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For current shows it's probably just Over-Time and GUIS fansubs. For other shows...

MidnightCrew - Kamen Rider Stronger (up to episode 22)
KIT - Kamen Rider (up to episode 17) and Skyrider (up to episode 12) now
GaoSoulForever - They finished Gaoranger and they're up to episode 24 of Sun Vulcan. They're also subbing all the Sentai VS movies as a side project.
GUIS - They're up to around 40 episodes on Liveman and about 3 or 4 with Jetman.

Those are some of the groups that release more consistently than most.

There's also a movement lately called soft scrubbing where people will fix any general errors in TV-N stuff and release them with DVD encodes. They're mostly just polished versions of TV-N stuff, though there's one called Shinkenanon that I think adds an extra layer to the show that TV-N missed out on.

And as Lynxara said, Hibiki is also being done and that's something I've been looking forward to for a long time.

Hell Kaiser Andy said:

I believe this is all the Anons, and The group scrubbing subs.
I also just found out about the Ryuki Scrubber to be honest.

Shinkenanon - Scrubbing Magiranger and Shinkenger
Magiranger - 1-19
Shinkenger - 1-24
Also the Decade/Shinkenger Arc.

Go-Anonger - Scrubbing Go-Onger
Go-Onger - 1-17

Gomen Rider - Scrubbing Agito
Have not updated in 7 months.
Agito - 1-17

MCS - Scrubbing Kabuto
Kabuto - 1-2

Ryuganon- Scrubbing Ryuki
Ryuki - 1-3

GekiKnight@HJU - Scrubbing 555 & Gekiranger
555 - 14 + 17-21
Gekiranger - 1

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This is from a while back, and clearly not updated.
Ryuganon also started doing Blade. KITsubs are doing Hibiki.
I believe that's all to note.

Aoi Kurenai said:

GUIS - They're up to around 40 episodes on Liveman and about 3 or 4 with Jetman.

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44 for Liveman, 5 for Jetman.