Question about Sub-Groups

[Medivh]

First off, thanks to everyone who provided the information. A friend pointed me towards Midnight Crew, and I've heard of KIT-Subs. I'll have to take a look and see if I can find them. Glad to have alternatives for those shows that I just really don't want to wait on.

Sometimes they are. It really depends on the show's vocabulary level. There's an episode of PGSM where TVN has Tuxedo Mask saying he doesn't have any powers... a few episodes before the plot is all about his special powers! What he actually said is that he doesn't have the same powers that a Sailor Guardian does, which is pretty relevant to his role later in the story.

Another example of TVN botching things fairly badly is the second episode of Kamen Rider Hibiki, where the entire point of the episode and some crucial exposition got somehow lost in the original translation. The fixed KITSubs version is very different and, well, actually has a point. In some cases, the whole point of retranslation efforts is to find and correct errors like this.

Generally TVN does better with simpler, more straightforward shows. This is true of most fan-run sub groups that release a show as it airs in Japan. It's hard to keep a release completely free of errors when you're figuring things out on a week-to-week basis. Most of the TVN releases people are correcting now are older ones where, over time, the flaws have become very clear.

This is typical of any fandom where there's a relatively small amount of canon series that can be relatively difficult to translate. Fans have more time to scrutinize the translations that exist. Gundam has several anime and manga series that have been translated three or more times each by fans, each time to correct errors in the last version.

This is another thing I think that's looked over in regards to the vitriol against TV-N. For all their problems, many of the cited cases happen in older serieses. Even from a visual standpoint, watching their subs for things like their first run-through of 555, as well as some others, I got the distinct impression that they've grown from when they did those releases to now. and one can at least hope that their accuracy has become greater. Which, if they have grown, the question becomes: disregarding past transgressions, are they currently accurate?

 

[Tom Constantine]

Nope

It's okay they get certain things wrong, you know, it doesn't matter to the story. It's absolutely fine when they make small mistakes like this:

When he actually says "Give me the calculator"(I'm not even fucking kidding). Can't expect to get something like this right, how can you trust them to get important lines right?

 

[Zaido]

I was just curious. Why is there so much hate over TV-Nihon?

mmm I am also wondering this. I am not even here long but I can see really there is much hatred on here. So silly. My friend is a member of another forum and came across this about new movie Garo. I will copy and paste what she sends to me in IM.

"These are NOT the Custom Fansubbed Subtitles, rather they are the Proper OFFICIAL English Subtitles."

"Uploader's comments:
This is the official English Subtitles as intended by the Producers and seen theatrically Internationally. These custom subtitles are taken from a hard-subbed DVD Screener and differs (and corrects) the translation and meaning in some respect from the Fansubbed English subtitles floating out there. The only thing I changed was correcting the character name Karma, instead of Kalma, which was used in the DVD SCR."

"Fansubbed by Over Time"

So not just by my friends word, it is being noticed by others as well. It appears not only one group is making wrong translation, will you hate them also? If not then mmm it seems its really a pinpointed animosity. By the way my friend grew up in Japan lived there most of her life. She speaks 3 languages (Japanese, Tagalog, English). Well she knows more but just listing main languages. She also points out many incorrect and mmm to also say not well worded sentence or so. We watch together most releases on here and there is in all groups some inaccuracies so why do so many hate only one group. Strange. I can easy to point out inaccuracies in other groups but I am lazy haha. Just one example is enough to show not only one group is doing it. Easy to know if there is one mistake there is sure to be more in same episode and others. No group is perfect on their translation maybe people should focus their own works instead so much on another then they will have better translation haha.

 

[Forever Knight]

The recent Tiga subs are actually rips of the Funimation set put to better video quality.

Oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Yea man, I feel the exact same way.

:thumbs:

Sounds like I need to look into KuugaInvestigationTeam. Aoi, can you or anyone else compile a short list of some of the better TV-Nihon fansub alternatives and the notable projects they're working on?

No time for you man. Back to school soon. :disappoin

 

[Medivh]

mmm I am also wondering this. I am not even here long but I can see really there is much hatred on here. So silly. My friend is a member of another forum and came across this about new movie Garo. I will copy and paste what she sends to me in IM.

"These are NOT the Custom Fansubbed Subtitles, rather they are the Proper OFFICIAL English Subtitles."

"Uploader's comments:
This is the official English Subtitles as intended by the Producers and seen theatrically Internationally. These custom subtitles are taken from a hard-subbed DVD Screener and differs (and corrects) the translation and meaning in some respect from the Fansubbed English subtitles floating out there. The only thing I changed was correcting the character name Karma, instead of Kalma, which was used in the DVD SCR."

"Fansubbed by Over Time"

So not just by my friends word, it is being noticed by others as well. It appears not only one group is making wrong translation, will you hate them also? If not then mmm it seems its really a pinpointed animosity. By the way my friend grew up in Japan lived there most of her life. She speaks 3 languages (Japanese, Tagalog, English). Well she knows more but just listing main languages. She also points out many incorrect and mmm to also say not well worded sentence or so. We watch together most releases on here and there is in all groups some inaccuracies so why do so many hate only one group. Strange. I can easy to point out inaccuracies in other groups but I am lazy haha. Just one example is enough to show not only one group is doing it. Easy to know if there is one mistake there is sure to be more in same episode and others. No group is perfect on their translation maybe people should focus their own works instead so much on another then they will have better translation haha.

Not just this, but if they are universally recognized as inaccurate and there is a problem, why not help them instead of hating them?

Yes, yes. I know. More than likely if it was offered, it'd be taken as an insult, help refused, etc. etc. But if we're going to shun/hate the groups that are inaccurate, and many groups are inaccurate to one degree or another, the amount of groups available to do everything will likely decrease, and the quality may very well take a nosedive too. And if nothing else we know what happens when a group takes too much on their plate. (Hint: releases sure as heck don't speed up.) Now, not knowing much if anything of TV-N's behind-the-scenes history, I don't know if anyone's extended an olive branch and their translation services. But if noone has...why not? Quality and accuracy seems to be a universal want amongst all groups. Why not help eachother instead of spit fire and snide remarks?

Again, I know pride is going to be an issue. I'd say it's impossible to do something like this and NOT have it crop up. But if handled with the right level of diplomacy I think it COULD work. We all want to have quality, accurate subs. I'm sure it'd be tough, but I think it's better that, in pursuit of that goal, groups help eachother rather than sit around sniping.

 

[Zaido]

Not just this, but if they are universally recognized as inaccurate and there is a problem, why not help them instead of hating them?

Yes, yes. I know. More than likely if it was offered, it'd be taken as an insult, help refused, etc. etc. But if we're going to shun/hate the groups that are inaccurate, and many groups are inaccurate to one degree or another, the amount of groups available to do everything will likely decrease, and the quality may very well take a nosedive too. And if nothing else we know what happens when a group takes too much on their plate. (Hint: releases sure as heck don't speed up.) Now, not knowing much if anything of TV-N's behind-the-scenes history, I don't know if anyone's extended an olive branch and their translation services. But if noone has...why not? Quality and accuracy seems to be a universal want amongst all groups. Why not help eachother instead of spit fire and snide remarks?

Again, I know pride is going to be an issue. I'd say it's impossible to do something like this and NOT have it crop up. But if handled with the right level of diplomacy I think it COULD work. We all want to have quality, accurate subs. I'm sure it'd be tough, but I think it's better that, in pursuit of that goal, groups help eachother rather than sit around sniping.

Yes right. It can work but I think it will not. mmm I think as you say pride and ego and over confidence is far more some problem. I will trust my friend more than anyone. She grew up in Japan. She understands some nuances and slang etc only a Japanese will know. Even some localized things she is even a bit unclear on because she didn't live in those district or city the dialogue is pertaining to. So how can someone who is just taking some Japanese class or learning on their own understand let alone translate it. There is even different languages in itself like business language military language even a normal Japanese citizen will not even be aware of the terminology. How will also these Japanese class takers self learners etc know it? Fuedal times in Japan also. OK I will stop now haha I am typing too much getting lazy now.

 

[Frumix]

why not help them instead of hating them?

Can't help the unwilling.

 

[KingRanger]

Can't help the unwilling.

When a person/group thinks they do no wrong, how can you help them? When they leave things untranslated in purpose what help do you think they want. I also want to point out that being 100% literal is not always how you want to translate.

 

[Bolt]

Not just this, but if they are universally recognized as inaccurate and there is a problem, why not help them instead of hating them?

Yes, yes. I know. More than likely if it was offered, it'd be taken as an insult, help refused, etc. etc. But if we're going to shun/hate the groups that are inaccurate, and many groups are inaccurate to one degree or another, the amount of groups available to do everything will likely decrease, and the quality may very well take a nosedive too. And if nothing else we know what happens when a group takes too much on their plate. (Hint: releases sure as heck don't speed up.) Now, not knowing much if anything of TV-N's behind-the-scenes history, I don't know if anyone's extended an olive branch and their translation services. But if noone has...why not? Quality and accuracy seems to be a universal want amongst all groups. Why not help eachother instead of spit fire and snide remarks?

Again, I know pride is going to be an issue. I'd say it's impossible to do something like this and NOT have it crop up. But if handled with the right level of diplomacy I think it COULD work. We all want to have quality, accurate subs. I'm sure it'd be tough, but I think it's better that, in pursuit of that goal, groups help eachother rather than sit around sniping.

One problem you face with dealing with translation of any kind is finding someone who is fluent enough in the poles of both languages to ensure that the original language is being translated accurately and the resulting translation abides the rules and structure of the secondary language. It may not be that hard to find native Japanese speakers who know exactly what they're hearing when they watch certain shows, but finding someone with enough bilingual proficiency to bestow the same depth and precision of meaning on the secondary language has got to be a much more rare occurance.

Even if you were to take the loose English translation from one who speaks adept Japanese, you would be responsible for refining certain errors in spelling, grammar and syntax, potentially altering the difficult meaning that is trying to be conveyed, not to mention essentially having to undertake two separate translations, in effect. In that case, you run into the same snags in expressing accurate meanings in a way that preserves the fidelity of the original language as you do when the translation is the work of a translator with only a sufficient knowledge of the language being translated.

 

[Lynxara]

Just one example is enough to show not only one group is doing it.

If you bring this up again, provide some examples. If you're not going to provide examples, then please stop spamming the thread with it.