Practical Effects VS CGI in Toku
- Thread starter Seigi
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Shougo B'Stard
Would like to change his avatar
I prefer practical effects, and this goes for productions even beyond henshin heroes. These shows are low budget, so the effects aren't always going to be the best, but to me CGI looks bad even in high budget stuff. Avatar's one of the most expensive movies ever made, and that movie still just looks like a big cartoon to me.
It's still mainly the JAE for both Sentai and Rider -- only a couple of one-off things like The First and Akibaranger have used other stunt groups.
It's still mainly the JAE for both Sentai and Rider -- only a couple of one-off things like The First and Akibaranger have used other stunt groups.
Smilodon
Friendship and the Cosmos.
I think there can be good times for both. Personally, I hate CGI rider kicks. I really liked it up to Agito (Before Shining Form) where every single Rider Kick was done by a suit actor who jumped off a trampoline or was hurtled into the air while suspended by wires. As cool as the three rings in OOO's Rider Kick is, seeing Tominaga or Takaiwa or Eitoku actually kick someone is really cool.
That's why I appreciate Sakamoto for actually preserving that. Though he uses extensive wirework so there is no scene cut to hide the actual trampoline or whatever, Joker and Meteor have some gorgeous, but more importantly, physical action scenes.
Of course, the large monster things are kinda bad, but they seem to use those pretty sparingly. I'm also glad KR keeps the real sparks. Seeing Gokaiger fight with fake ones suck.
Though the CGI in transformation scenes have gotten a lot better, so it's sick in that regard.
That's why I appreciate Sakamoto for actually preserving that. Though he uses extensive wirework so there is no scene cut to hide the actual trampoline or whatever, Joker and Meteor have some gorgeous, but more importantly, physical action scenes.
Of course, the large monster things are kinda bad, but they seem to use those pretty sparingly. I'm also glad KR keeps the real sparks. Seeing Gokaiger fight with fake ones suck.
Though the CGI in transformation scenes have gotten a lot better, so it's sick in that regard.
Ah ha, so Sentai/KR groups are more/less the same. Spark takers man.
Black Fang
Active Member
Most 70s explosions weren't very "fiery" in the ground battles, I have noticed. Form the mid-80s to the end of the 90s they started getting more massive and frequent.
Shougo B'Stard
Would like to change his avatar
The explosions in '70s Sentai and Rider were usually just gray smoke bombs, or just an explosion of dirt trying to imitate chunks of ground being scattered from the impact of an attack.
The '80s is when pyromania hit.
The '80s is when pyromania hit.
SamuraiEchidna
Active Member
I don't have any gripes about the CGI. Sure, it's not the high-end model of CGI, but I kind of like that. There's something about it that makes it seem like more of a novelty, but you can see it's true potential when they use it to upgrade the special effects for the Showa Riders.
As for practical effects, I gotta say that I am beginning to like the wire-fu stuff. I know some people are saying it looks too much like Power Rangers, but I disagree. I think it is handled MUCH better in Japan than in America. For example...
I saw a crossover movie between some Showa Riders from way back in the day. I forget which movie it was, but it was amazing! For such an old movie, the battle scenes were REALLY impressive. I was surprised how they were fighting on the hills above, the valleys below, and everywhere. They were all over the place with their battle while doing their best to keep all the Riders in the shot! THAT is what panoramic view was made for! Then I look at how the fight scenes were handled in movies like Mega Max, especially when you had multiple Riders fighting the villains together, and it feels like they are trying to recapture that cinematic glory but with a modern spin on it.
As for practical effects, I gotta say that I am beginning to like the wire-fu stuff. I know some people are saying it looks too much like Power Rangers, but I disagree. I think it is handled MUCH better in Japan than in America. For example...
I saw a crossover movie between some Showa Riders from way back in the day. I forget which movie it was, but it was amazing! For such an old movie, the battle scenes were REALLY impressive. I was surprised how they were fighting on the hills above, the valleys below, and everywhere. They were all over the place with their battle while doing their best to keep all the Riders in the shot! THAT is what panoramic view was made for! Then I look at how the fight scenes were handled in movies like Mega Max, especially when you had multiple Riders fighting the villains together, and it feels like they are trying to recapture that cinematic glory but with a modern spin on it.
Toku Prime
Well-Known Member
Personally I prefer the physical effects for their consistency. You can really tell when they've had to cut back on the CGI budget for an episode. It always bugs me when you can see through an explosion to the completely fine building underneath. A good example of them cutting back is at the start of episode 36 of Fourze. He does the MagnetStates limit break, and they film it at an angle where it's really quite obvious (at least to me) that they're having two guys pull the megnet halves out of his shoulders rather than CGI-ing it, and the shooting CGI is just pasted over the top of the live action scene rather than looking like a part of it. But as long as they maintain the same quality throughout I'm usually fine with it. Look at Hibiki, the CGI monsters are quite obviously CGI, but I got used to it.
The one other thing that bugs me is when they animate the lead characters. Garo often has CGI monsters, and CGI landscapes, but when they get to the horse riding scenes or the big final battles they make a CGI Garo too. It just doesn't have the reflective quality of the real armor, and I become very aware that this live action show has just become entirely animated. It's the same in Movie Max where the final scene is entirely CGI and because they don't have a big Hollywood budget the suits are noticably different to the real ones.
Having said that, let's be honest without CGI none of the henshins in any modern toku show would be possible. Or any of the Rider collectables gimmicks. The ones they often use, like henshins, form changes etc are often done really well (presumably in preproduction for the entire show). It's only when they want a one-off or get over ambitious that it becomes jarring. So I can't take a "no CGI ever" stance. Having said that, good choreographed fights with some physical effects will usually get the edge for me...unless it's lazy wirework. Just as much as animating the lead bugs me, I always get brought out of the moment when I notice that the character is flying in an easily-predictable arc, or just straight up and down with an unnaturally long pause at the top of their jump. Just as with CGI, when it's good it's fantastic. When it's rushed it spoils things. The only problem is you tend to get this kind of wirework in the movies based on the show, rather than the show. Kinda takes the edge off the specialness of the film.
The one other thing that bugs me is when they animate the lead characters. Garo often has CGI monsters, and CGI landscapes, but when they get to the horse riding scenes or the big final battles they make a CGI Garo too. It just doesn't have the reflective quality of the real armor, and I become very aware that this live action show has just become entirely animated. It's the same in Movie Max where the final scene is entirely CGI and because they don't have a big Hollywood budget the suits are noticably different to the real ones.
Having said that, let's be honest without CGI none of the henshins in any modern toku show would be possible. Or any of the Rider collectables gimmicks. The ones they often use, like henshins, form changes etc are often done really well (presumably in preproduction for the entire show). It's only when they want a one-off or get over ambitious that it becomes jarring. So I can't take a "no CGI ever" stance. Having said that, good choreographed fights with some physical effects will usually get the edge for me...unless it's lazy wirework. Just as much as animating the lead bugs me, I always get brought out of the moment when I notice that the character is flying in an easily-predictable arc, or just straight up and down with an unnaturally long pause at the top of their jump. Just as with CGI, when it's good it's fantastic. When it's rushed it spoils things. The only problem is you tend to get this kind of wirework in the movies based on the show, rather than the show. Kinda takes the edge off the specialness of the film.
Solari
New Member
When did they change the sentai's sparks to CGI?
I didn't really notice..
Speaking of sparks, here's something from a making-of of the Den-O saraba movie.
at 3:00
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy_t_6E7Zt4"]Kamen Rider Den O Saraba Making - YouTube[/ame]
