Power Rangers Operation Overdrive - "Pirate In Pink"

[JustAnotherBlueRanger]

You're contradicting yourself. You complain that the characters were stereotypical and then that they weren't as stereotypical as you would expect?

I apologize if that confused you above but, what I meant was. The MMPR characters were highly, HIGHLY stereotypical. Just like the stereotypes and cliches you found on any TV series or film of the time. You had the shopping-obsessed valley girl like Kim. Now in RL, at that time, I found next to no examples of girls acting like that.

Nowadays such behavior is commonplace. In fact one girl, I know, mentioned being at someone's wedding with one guy, then ditching him for the groom's brother who rode back w/ her some 200+ miles from where he lived. That's something directly out of a sitcom and it frightens me on some level that life is indeed imitating art.

Besides, you're completely missing the point. I didn't say that MMPR had good characters, but it had infinitely more believable characters than what we get now. They had a life outside being Rangers, which the current teams don't really. They would kid around without looking stupid, but when that communicator beeped, they cut the crap and they focused.

I don't think we have the same definitions of believeable and serious. They really didn't have a life outside of being rangers because more then half of the original footage shot in the early days consisted of them hanging out either A)at school or B)at the Juice bar. There were shots of the park and other activities when the plot called for it but otherwise that was it. If you recall, they routinely filmed something like 3-5 episodes a day in the old days because almost all of the American footage was them walking around location A) or B).

And for looking 'serious', that struck me as being odd because they seemed to drop whatever they were doing to become serious. I mean look at their stances and such and then compare it to the Sentai footage. I just don't see a really good mesh, especially with Billy who was maybe average unmorphed but somehow became very focused and skilled in the sentai footage. It wasn't until we started seeing the US shot footage that the rangers actually matched their normal personas.

Current Ranger teams need to drop a dozen smartass jokes before they go in battle and then they have to throw just as many during battle. Completely anti-climatic. How the hell can I take them seriously and sympathize with them or like them?

The key word is currently, it is the style currently to do that. BtVS for example, had several quips in the midst of what would otherwise be intense drama or action. I'm not crazy about it myself but that is the style that is in right now and that's how the show must be written. You can't do what the AWA did in trying to market to either TNA or WWE fans, it just wouldn't work.

You confuse childish with idiotic. The characters in OO, maybe with the exception of Rose, are trying to be kid-friendly. Do you really believe that Dax's irritating over-acting, that is accompanied by pseudo-smart lines is characterization and not a desperate effort for the character to seem and sound funny to the little kids?

And it's not just Dax. It's pretty much everyone. It's not just OO. It's every Ranger team since SPD. Maybe even before that.

I would say, I don't know what sounds funny to little kids. Unless someone here has some or is around them a lot I don't think anyone here knows what is and isn't funny to little kids. Maybe kids don't like it at all or maybe they like some of it. The point being it's written and aimed at little kids, I can't really fault the creative staff for targeting their main audience.

 

[NeoRanger]

I don't think we have the same definitions of believeable and serious. They really didn't have a life outside of being rangers because more then half of the original footage shot in the early days consisted of them hanging out either A)at school or B)at the Juice bar. There were shots of the park and other activities when the plot called for it but otherwise that was it. If you recall, they routinely filmed something like 3-5 episodes a day in the old days because almost all of the American footage was them walking around location A) or B).

But did they need more than that? It was established that they were kids early in their high school years. Ok, we didn't see them at home with their parents and it would be cool if we had, but their activities and their roles were there. They were students, they had martial arts or gymnastics or dancing or temp activities that they'd pick up, they had their crushes and they were also Rangers. After DT, the only Ranger team that had another activity than being Rangers was MF and even they were shown constantly in that damn record shop. Heck, what happened to Madison's video-making, anyway? They didn't even have activities that the plot called for.

And for looking 'serious', that struck me as being odd because they seemed to drop whatever they were doing to become serious. I mean look at their stances and such and then compare it to the Sentai footage. I just don't see a really good mesh, especially with Billy who was maybe average unmorphed but somehow became very focused and skilled in the sentai footage. It wasn't until we started seeing the US shot footage that the rangers actually matched their normal personas

Actually, I like the switch from American to Sentai. Well, the technical part sucks, but I don't find it implausible at all.

Except for Billy. His leap from nerd to awesome fighter annoyed me from the get-go, even back then. But at least they went to lenghts of explaining that he attended a Karate class. Do we really know anything about the current Rangers' fighting skills? The change is just as sudden, we just don't get the chance to pick that out.

The key word is currently, it is the style currently to do that.

I would say, I don't know what sounds funny to little kids. Unless someone here has some or is around them a lot I don't think anyone here knows what is and isn't funny to little kids. Maybe kids don't like it at all or maybe they like some of it. The point being it's written and aimed at little kids, I can't really fault the creative staff for targeting their main audience.

But that's my problem. They show can be written differently and still be kid-friendly. It has been for at least 9 years (up to TF) and it worked. Ok, I can understand trying new things, but this is not about trying new stuff and improving on them; they're only mainstreaming the show even more. The characters act like any mainstream cartoon character you'd expect to find in any Saturday morning cartoon. That's what bugs me the most. It shows complete lack of care about the show.

It comes down to this: the show started fifteen years ago and under entirely different circumstances. It did some things right, it did some things wrong. It had the chance to improve on them and for a time it did. Now it's only aiming at getting the season done, promote the merchandise, move on to the next. It turned into a routine. I haven't seen an effort to improve in years. And it's got fifteen years of history to learn from. I can't let the creative staff completely off the hook on that, even though my main complaint lies with the production.

 

[The Resurrection King]

A lot because when you start getting in your teens, it gets rather noticable that you're not a teenager anymore. And Wyatt, name-calling aside, ASJ I thought was older then that when he started.

[quote\
Besides, this is not about development, but about the way they're acting. MMPR characters were shallow? Ok, where is the depth in the characters we have now? The difference is that in MMPR we had characters that were acting somewhat serious and believable. Did you EVER see that mess that's called Dax in MMPR? Or Zeo? Hell, even Turbo? Or anything that followed, before NS. And even there, Dustin was actually a lot cooler and he had dialogue.

It's exactly like Garren said:

The mess that is Dax? As opposed to the cliche that was Billy? The nerdish dork who somehow aquired gym skills and had more gf type episodes then anyone else? I have YET to see in my lifetime ANY girl as considered about the enviroment as Kimberly and Trini were in High School always handing out flyers. Those characters weren't serious, they were cardboard.

A real person isn't a neatly defined cliche, Neither is a character in ANY decent to good TV series that I'm aware of. Not in BtVS, not in AtS, not in any Anime series, etc... They are a mess on purpose so you can see how they grow and CHANGE as characters.



To which again, I say, look around. Saying "no person over 8 does" isn't anymore true then a character in a fictional tv series being a mess is a bad thing. I'm pretty sure everyone on this board knows someone who has some sort of behavior or habit they consider childish or along the same veins as 'bobbing heads'.

As for the jewel, remember back to the begining of MF when it was alleged that all the original Mystic Warriors were dead only to see that redefined and changed over the course of the season with regards to Leanbow, Calindor and Daggeron? Same thing here.[/QUOTE]

ASJ was born 9/1975 and yeah he was just shy of making 16/17 when he auditioned and/or production began. He tried out in 9/1992.

 

[JustAnotherBlueRanger]

But did they need more than that? It was established that they were kids early in their high school years. Ok, we didn't see them at home with their parents and it would be cool if we had, but their activities and their roles were there. They were students, they had martial arts or gymnastics or dancing or temp activities that they'd pick up, they had their crushes and they were also Rangers. After DT, the only Ranger team that had another activity than being Rangers was MF and even they were shown constantly in that damn record shop. Heck, what happened to Madison's video-making, anyway? They didn't even have activities that the plot called for.

So you're saying that just those early scenes of them walking around established that the characters had a life and were more fleshed out then their modern day counterparts?

After DT, you had SPD who by their very mission statement and the nature of the series was supposed to be Rangers 24/7 which is the reason Jack eventually left. Your not holding the nature of the sentai its based on against PR are you? Even PRiS dropped the whole 'they're teens in high school" layer at some point during the season.

Actually, I like the switch from American to Sentai. Well, the technical part sucks, but I don't find it implausible at all.

Except for Billy. His leap from nerd to awesome fighter annoyed me from the get-go, even back then. But at least they went to lenghts of explaining that he attended a Karate class. Do we really know anything about the current Rangers' fighting skills? The change is just as sudden, we just don't get the chance to pick that out.

As a kid, I didn't really pay attention but now, I look athe older episodes and flaws start becoming readily apparent.

But that's my problem. They show can be written differently and still be kid-friendly. It has been for at least 9 years (up to TF) and it worked. Ok, I can understand trying new things, but this is not about trying new stuff and improving on them; they're only mainstreaming the show even more. The characters act like any mainstream cartoon character you'd expect to find in any Saturday morning cartoon. That's what bugs me the most. It shows complete lack of care about the show.

It comes down to this: the show started fifteen years ago and under entirely different circumstances. It did some things right, it did some things wrong. It had the chance to improve on them and for a time it did. Now it's only aiming at getting the season done, promote the merchandise, move on to the next. It turned into a routine. I haven't seen an effort to improve in years. And it's got fifteen years of history to learn from. I can't let the creative staff completely off the hook on that, even though my main complaint lies with the production.

Okay in an ideal world, I would side with and support you on many of your viewpoints.

But this isn't an ideal world. Power Rangers and Super Sentai are first and foremost, businesses and as such, the people who run them, owe it to the people who actually own them and provide the show runners with all their resources, the maximum bang for the buck. And going by the Youmacon interivews with Bruce Kalish, I can't rationally believe that he doesn't care about his work on the franchise to the point where he just half-asses things.

I think a fairly large portion of the older fanbase has a slighly irrational view and take on what the series should be and could be. A view largely based on what they've seen in the past yet ignorant by choice or accident, of the factors and conditions that existed in the past and this view is simply possible anymore.

It's kind of like someone attempting to remake "Blazing Saddles" today. You couldn't. I mean you could try but the whole thing would fall apart and be a disaster like the new Psycho was. Now you can make a move along the same vein as BS but different and that probably would succeed but it's nearly impossible to reset everything and have a workable project. Look at Batman Begins and Batman, similiar tales and takes on a shared origin but fundementally different.

Kalish was hired to make PR completely different from what it had been previously and I think he's largely succeeded in that task. But what he's created and whether or not it's any good is still a matter of personal opinion.

 

[NeoRanger]

So you're saying that just those early scenes of them walking around established that the characters had a life and were more fleshed out then their modern day counterparts?

They were easier to buy. If I know a character has more going on on their lives and even see them do this 'more' briefly, they're instantly easier to buy. When a character's only role is an imaginary super-hero in spandex, there are certain relatability issues that arise.

After DT, you had SPD who by their very mission statement and the nature of the series was supposed to be Rangers 24/7 which is the reason Jack eventually left. Your not holding the nature of the sentai its based on against PR are you? Even PRiS dropped the whole 'they're teens in high school" layer at some point during the season.

PRiS was the first to do it. It was a welcome change for one season and it had other things going on, which the recent shows don't. Besides, I do hold the nature of Sentai it's based on against PR, if need be. How close was MMPR to Zyuranger, after all?

As a kid, I didn't really pay attention but now, I look athe older episodes and flaws start becoming readily apparent.

They bugged me as a kid as well. I watched the series again a year or so ago and after picking out its errors, I went into a short-lived bashing period. Now I'm rewatching it and it's actually a lot better than I remembered, especially considering what I'm being currently served.

But this isn't an ideal world. Power Rangers and Super Sentai are first and foremost, businesses and as such, the people who run them, owe it to the people who actually own them and provide the show runners with all their resources, the maximum bang for the buck. And going by the Youmacon interivews with Bruce Kalish, I can't rationally believe that he doesn't care about his work on the franchise to the point where he just half-asses things.

He doesn't half-ass things, because he gets off on it, he does it because his working conditions suck. I'd be pretty pissed if they hired me to write a children's TV show with mentality for a target group below eight years old, forced me to cut money left and right because they didn't provide me with sufficient budget and forced me to waste at least half an episode to push merchandise, such as bikes.

In the end of the day, you say 'the hell with it, I did what I could' and you go on.

I think a fairly large portion of the older fanbase has a slightly irrational view and take on what the series should be and could be. A view largely based on what they've seen in the past yet ignorant by choice or accident, of the factors and conditions that existed in the past and this view is simply possible anymore.

I'm prrretty sure I'm not missing something. Saban's a piss-poor company that when they had money, they actually invested on the show and tried to improve it whenever possible. They were looking for profit, of course, but at least that didn't hurt the show. Disney is a company as rich as the 3/4 of the planet, who has been gradually reducing the budget and making sure they hire people to mainstream the show as much as possible, with sole purpose to makethemselves -and BoA- even richer. They're a business, from their perspective it makes sense. It doesn't mean it has to make sense from mine.

It's kind of like someone attempting to remake "Blazing Saddles" today. You couldn't. I mean you could try but the whole thing would fall apart and be a disaster like the new Psycho was. Now you can make a move along the same vein as BS but different and that probably would succeed but it's nearly impossible to reset everything and have a workable project. Look at Batman Begins and Batman, similiar tales and takes on a shared origin but fundementally different.

So, you really think that making a show along the lines of LG or TF today is out of the question because of current trents? The only thing that can exist is the likes of MF and Overdrive? Allow me to disagree. Had that been the case, the ratings of the show (I don't have them, I found them around, RB and google) wouldn't be dropping like hell.

Kalish was hired to make PR completely different from what it had been previously and I think he's largely succeeded in that task. But what he's created and whether or not it's any good is still a matter of personal opinion.

After PROO started, I started going easier on Kalish and harder on Disney. Fact is, that's exactly what they did. They wanted to mainstream the show as much as possible, because they believed that this would increase the already very high toy sales. Sloan, being on the franchise too long for their tastes wouldn't take where they wanted him to, so he left and Brucie came along.

It's not just the writing, after all. Look at the battles. When was the last time Koichi directed a decent battle sequence, that didn't involve slow-mo explosions and incredibly implausible wire-work? TF? WF?

So, no, I don't think that Bruce and the current stuff do a good job. But I do think that the one to blame the most is actually Disney.

 

[adamclark83]

What a brilliant episode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoever is in charge of the script editing, congratulations. Overdrive is shaping up to be one of, if not THE best, seasons ever. This will be one season that I will fondly remember.

 

[Mr. Underachiever]

He doesn't half-ass things, because he gets off on it, he does it because his working conditions suck. I'd be pretty pissed if they hired me to write a children's TV show with mentality for a target group below eight years old, forced me to cut money left and right because they didn't provide me with sufficient budget and forced me to waste at least half an episode to push merchandise, such as bikes.

You say that like it's supposed to be some sort of excuse--it's not. He knew (or at least SHOULD have known) exactly what Disney wanted out of the show. It's a low-budget 30-minute toy commercial for kids, but just because it is doesn't mean you can't put SOME sort of effort into it. Saying, "I just don't care" because you're working on a kids' show is a terrible mentality to have, simple as that.

 

[The 2nd Evil]

On the subject of Bruce "Half-assing it", as Lisa J has mentioned on more than one occasion since talking to him at Youmacon, he fired a director for not doing his best because it was "just a kid's show".

That tells me he certainly takes this job seriously.

 

[NeoRanger]

You say that like it's supposed to be some sort of excuse--it's not. He knew (or at least SHOULD have known) exactly what Disney wanted out of the show. It's a low-budget 30-minute toy commercial for kids, but just because it is doesn't mean you can't put SOME sort of effort into it. Saying, "I just don't care" because you're working on a kids' show is a terrible mentality to have, simple as that.

Yes and no... the production tends to meddle with the creative part of pretty much anything. Back in the '90s when they were attempting a Superman movie, Peters (that was his name I think) had Smith completely screw over his own script, because he didn't like Superman. There are the things you know they expect and the things that pop-up afterwards out of the blue. So you end up doing the job you're hired to do, but by the time production runs through it, you have to change a buttload of things that really shouldn't need changing. It's kind of frustrating under these working conditions.

It's like that thing he had said in his last interview, that the writers are getting paid to translate and adapt the Japanese storylines and not come up with their own. It's pretty much like saying "We care about our job, we want to do something good, but under these conditions we're just trying to get by".

 

[Kamen Rider Caucasus]

Did the special effects of the pirate inhabiting Rose look an awefull lot like the effects used in KR Den-o when the imagin inhabit Ryotaro to anyone else?