Live-action Blue Beetle series?

[Lynxara]

It's cool. Giffen's take on the Beetle is actually pretty original, though there are definitely tokusatsu influences.

I think they're also pushing the character because he's probably the most popular of the ethnic legacy characters and otherwise DC is facing a lot of harsh criticism for racial insensitivity just now.

 

[Kenori]

So you're saying that his take on the blue beetle, which is that an alien parasitic organism that gives people super powers is sent to earth to help in a grand scheme to take over humanity by aliens, is original.

Sounds VERRRRRY Guyver-ish to me.

In fact, I think Yoshiki Takaya should probably be calling his lawyers.

Though I dont mind, as supposedly one of Takaya-san's major influences for Guyver was Kamen Rider...

 

[Lynxara]

So you're saying that his take on the blue beetle, which is that an alien parasitic organism that gives people super powers is sent to earth to help in a grand scheme to take over humanity by aliens, is original.

I am saying the execution is an original combination of many influences. The way the parasite talks to Jaime in alien language, for instance, is totally comic booky and completely unlike any Guyver I've seen. The way the parasite exists as something that hates Green Lanterns is pretty goddamn unlike Guyver. I think it was created by the weaponeers of Qward, which would be a little Ridery, but I can't remember offhand. I say this as someone who has read most of Blue Beetle's comic book appearances and seen most of his appearances in other media, too.

This is not a character like the Knight, whose design was clearly poached from Kamen Rider Wing, or all of Tony Stark's Ultimate Comics armors that were just recopied, slightly altered Gundam designs. Some actual thought went into making Jaime a special character and I think that shows.

Sounds VERRRRRY Guyver-ish to me.

Blue Beetle III's scarab is meant to be Blue Beetle I's scarab, and Blue Beetle I was a character created in the 40s. So I could be a total asshole here and accuse Guyver of ripping off Blue Beetle, but I won't, because I won't be that point-missing, forum-ruining guy.

In fact, I think Yoshiki Takaya should probably be calling his lawyers.

Heh, only if Toei calls their lawyers on him first... that guy took way more from Kamen Rider than Giffen took from Guyver, if he even did.

I am presuming that Giffen is even aware of Guyver, since I do know he worked on localizing manga at TokyoPop for a brief period. But otherwise he mostly seems to hate other people's comics, and for all we know the artist who did the original design thought it would be cute to make it tokusatsu-like.

 

[Kenori]

Well, the scarab being created in the 40's didnt exactly have all the powers it does now (With the whole "It was just damaged" retcon excuse). Back then it was just a little trinket that granted a few abilities.

I'm not saying its not a good story, the whole "Drop it on a planet to get the planet all comfortable for domination" is absolute genius. But a lot of the stuff you say is innovation just seems like story cop-out.

It doesnt work well with Green Lanterns? That just seems to be some weird little hook so they can bring Green Lantern, a very popular book at the time, into their little fold to boost sales.

And yeah, you're right about the scarab being created by the bad guys, though it was the Reach who made it, and that is very Kamen Rider thing.

Anyway, I'm not saying the story is bad in anyway, just that its not all that innovative to people who know more than just american media. And even if it were a COMPLETE shameless ripoff of Guyver, I wouldnt care, because I fucking LOVE Guyver.

Also, who is this "Knight" guy?

Do you mean this guy?

Because apparently he debuted in 99...

 

[Blue Saint]

Honestly it is hard to find any superhero concept that does borrow something from somewhere. I mean I have seen parallels drawn between Cyborg 009 and the All New, All Different X-Men. The most recent, original concept I can think of is Marvel's Sleepwalker and that is just a take on the Captain Marvel concept. Frankly power wise Jaime has more in-common with Warlock (New Mutant) than Guyver. Really though it all just comes down to the execution, which is where Jaime shines. The part that I think is going help this out the most though is the family dynamic, which is rather unique to most superheroes.

I am wondering if this meant to take the place of Smallville? And to be honest I would not be surprised if Jamie shows up in an episode or two. Also this is just great news that DC (and let's be honest Marvel is going to follow) is looking at exploring further into their ranks.

As for Knight and Kamen Rider Knight, they are both are just stylized mixes of Batman and stereotypical knights since I would amazed if anyone at Toei was in anyway familiar with the International Ultramarine Corps. Anyway it is really just the pointed ears which is the only direction you can go with that mixture.

 

[Lynxara]

Anyway, I'm not saying the story is bad in anyway, just that its not all that innovative to people who know more than just american media.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Something is not unoriginal, or not "innovative," simply because it is broadly comparable to something else. What determines originality, on a critical level, is the feel and specific details of the idea's execution. Any premise can be made to sound like almost any other if you simply begin removing relevant details, because at the end of the day humans tell each other variations on exactly three stories.

I never described Blue Beetle III as innovative. I simply said it probably wasn't a copy of Guyver because it's too unlike Guyver in many specific ways. I pointed out that in many ways Blue Beetle III behaves pretty much as you'd expect an American superhero to behave. Blue Beetle III is actually a fairly derivative property in my opinion, but I feel-- based on the comics themselves-- that it's clearly derivative of Spider-Man comics.

I'm thinking, particularly, of the mid-80s comics that focused on the Symbiont Suit, back before the suit was made into an outright villain. I could go into more detail on this, pointing out how specific Blue Beetle comic book plots are similar to influential Spider-Man plots or how Jaime is pretty much a Hispanic Peter Parker down to mannerism and dialog, but that would be one hell of a digression.

There simply has been no depiction of Blue Beetle III, that I've ever seen, that feels anything at all like Guyver when you add in all relevant details. If it was derivative of Guyver that would be very striking, because Guyver is a fairly obscure property and wildly unlike what goes on in American comics. Guyver is ultimately about the henshin hero as body horror while Blue Beetle III's much more generic in its storytelling.

To be honest, I would have no problems with you saying that Blue Beetle III was **** and that you hated it. People have a right to their opinions. I do take exception to describing the entire concept as derivative of a property the creator has probably never seen and that the actual storylines don't resemble in any substantial fashion. That doesn't make any sense and it's going to be unfairly misleading.

If you show up to Blue Beetle expecting Guyver, you're going to be really disappointed when you get Spider-Man in a funny hat instead.

 

[Kenori]

Sorry, didnt mean to make you mad, but I have read several issues of Blue Beetle III's starting run, and I gathered a much lighter0handed Guyver story. Yeah it may seem broad, but all the same concepts are there. A lone hero stuck with an alien symbiotic suit he can't quite control, an alien menace using that suit for world domination. The only thing really missing is the secret corporation the aliens control.

Its not as much on body-horror as Guyver, and its more toned down in the violence aspect, but they seem to be a fair bit more alike than you'd think.

 

[Skinwalker]

This kind of thing has been around forever, both Guyver and BB have their own merits and even with several similarities they're still very different, why hate? Enjoy both, or enjoy one and ignore the other. The symbiotic armor suit device thing isn't really exclusive to Guyver, and I was familiar with it before I ever heard of either Guyver or Jaime.

There's also Darkhawk.
Not exactly a rare concept...

 

[Kenori]

Thats just it, I'm really not hating. I love the character and the story, its just not original.

Same thing can be done with spawn. Just replace aliens with demons.

I absolutely ADORE this concept.

 

[Lynxara]

Sorry, didnt mean to make you mad, but I have read several issues of Blue Beetle III's starting run, and I gathered a much lighter0handed Guyver story.

I'm not mad, precisely, but I take the idea of who took what from who seriously. That's where all fiction begins, even Shakespeare copied old plays. Where stories become interesting and personal is in their details. That's also where an excessively derivative or plagiarized idea betrays itself: it'll have details that don't work or don't make any sense because they were copied thoughtlessly.

Now, the comic book industry will rip off Japanese ideas really shamelessly from time to time, but I don't think that happened in Blue Beetle III's case. Blue Beetle lacks almost all of Guyver's main themes and doesn't use a similar main conflict. He's not even a lone hero for long, since Peacemaker shows up to mentor him pretty early in the book's run. There's just not much that resembles Guyver specifically as opposed to, say, Tekkaman Blade.

I don't understand why there's any fixation on ideas being original, because... well, pretty much nothing that slots into a genre can be considered that way. Probably nothing written in human history can really be considered original, save in details of execution. Guyver resembles Superman as much as every other superhero does, when all's said and done. So from that I'd conclude that broad stroke similarities just are not important in any way.