Kamen Rider Wizard EP 31 - "His Tears"

but I saw it as taking an opening and fucking up.

Dragon: "Hey, the only one who gets to trash this Underworld is... ME!!"
Legion: "Exciting!"
Dragon: "Exciting? Is that your only come back? You're not gonna come at my retort with a good reto---ahhhh, Aw.. dammit!!"
 
Then I guess I'll have to be the only one who's right...This is the burden I must bear...

I'm with you. Dragon IS evil. So was Phoenix; that little tear he shed meant nothing to his non-existent humanity.

I'm convinced until the show gives us evidence otherwise, that the Phantoms are 100% evil. The human part is dead and if it isn't, it doesn't have anymore influence on the Phantom than the Phantom did on the person when they were still a Gate.
 
I'm with you. Dragon IS evil. So was Phoenix; that little tear he shed meant nothing to his non-existent humanity.

I'm convinced until the show gives us evidence otherwise, that the Phantoms are 100% evil. The human part is dead and if it isn't, it doesn't have anymore influence on the Phantom than the Phantom did on the person when they were still a Gate.

One of the big things in a lot of toku is the redemption of evil characters at times. If the dragon was ALL EVILLLLL like you say, he wouldn't help Haruto at all. Something to ponder wouldn't you say?
 
Which is strange because Rinko herself said that Phantoms can't be redeemed are are fully evil at the end of the Phoenix arc when she realized that she made a mistake trusting Phoenix.
 
Yeah, pretty much.

No he wasn't. I thought the same thing.

One of the big things in a lot of toku is the redemption of evil characters at times. If the dragon was ALL EVILLLLL like you say, he wouldn't help Haruto at all. Something to ponder wouldn't you say?

This is not the redemption you are looking for. He helps Haruto because he literally does not have a choice. Haruto beat the initial attack and became a wizard on his own. If he'd kept trying to fight Phoenix he would've died and the Dragon would have died as well. So he blessed him with Flame Dragon with the idea that eventually having all this power would make Haruto lose control. He's not like Ankh, the redeeming factors are few and far inbetween.
 
So was I the only one who thought Dragon was just blind siding Legion and ended up getting killed cause you all keep saying he saved Beast but I saw it as taking an opening and fucking up.

Why would he "blind side" Legion from the front rather than from behind? He also could just have breathed fire again. Legion didn't react to the dragon and turned around with his weapon or anything, the dragon just flew straight to his path - and the dragon can fly, but Legion was just jumping, so the dragon should have better aerial control.

Throwing his head in front of Legion's weapon even though he wasn't anywhere close to him seconds before only makes sense if he wanted to block the attack. I really don't see how that can be seen as a failed "blind siding" attempt.

So he blessed him with Flame Dragon with the idea that eventually having all this power would make Haruto lose control. He's not like Ankh, the redeeming factors are few and far inbetween.

It's not just a matter of helping him though. They also posed together after battles in the underworld once Haruto had gotten Flame Dragon, he could just leave at that point if he didn't care about Haruto. We just don't see much of the dragon in general, but ever since Haruto got Flame Dragon, it hasn't really been portrayed negatively. The comparison to Ankh doesn't work at all considering how Dragon just doesn't have a constant presence in the show.

But, now, we've just gotten Haruto's "strength of heart", not despair, reviving dragon, and during their last conversation the dragon used Haruto's own words about becoming his hope, nothing about despair. I can see how earlier episodes just didn't give enough information, but currently I don't see how "Dragon is an evil monster that wants to bring despair" can still work.
 
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I can just imagine if you guys' were trying to debate Flashman :laugh:

[hide]
> Guys, Sir Kaura helped Sara out! That means he's redeemed and a good guy now!!"
> Uh no, he still kidnapped her and did all that other junk. He's a bad guy!
> He's redeemed now. That's what toku does!! :170:
> Whatever.[/hide]
 
I think the point here, is that at least part of what was told to us (audience and the characters) are not really the truth. Infinity proved that magic can be achieved not only by falling in despair and surpassing it, but by a strong heart full of kindness. And this type of magic can even give a new life to a Phantom (noticed how Dragon returned with a shining-ish look, a type of glowing aura, in that scene inside Haruto?)
And we have the White Wizard's suspiciuos little phrase, too.
 

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