I'm Really sick of Tendou and Tsukasa Hate

[lazycoconut]

Riders aren't meant to be heroes that everyone can like, as I understand. I don't think every Rider can be that guy that fakes a smile for others sake. It may have been that case in the Showa era, but realise that reality is pretty much key here.

Why? Very little about these shows is realistic. When you've got a viewing audience of young kids, especially in Japan where etiquette and social behaviour are extremely important, one doesn't want to give the message that being a total dickbag to others is cool or acceptable.

 

[Shynilyte]

Tsukasa might have been more likeable if he had a better idea what the hell was going on.

 

[Black Fang]

Can anyone actually provide specific examples of Tendou being a jerk or truly uncaring to anyone? All that's ever made are broad statements about how horrible he is. Name moments in episodes and let's see if we can discuss whether or not he's actually being a jerk. That's the only way this conversation can go anywhere.

Even his grandma's quotes I don't think deserve the derision they get. Because they're self-centered? Why don't you actually think them through? Some of them actually do make some sense.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

Why? Very little about these shows is realistic. When you've got a viewing audience of young kids, especially in Japan where etiquette and social behaviour are extremely important, one doesn't want to give the message that being a total dickbag to others is cool or acceptable.

I never saw it as being a dick... I don't get why people are saying they are, but the way I see is that they have enough self confidence to respond in a way that favours them, and it's not really wrong if they are going to turn out victor.

If you're good at what you do, why let anyone else say otherwise? I'd pick a fight if someone were to say I'm not as good as they are at something. Well not really a fight, but I'd try to intimidate them. Violence isn't my thing, but hey if you could fake it, then it works out your way.

I think they're just really clever characters. I'd prefer to see them as archetypes of personalities. Decade to me, feels he's got a trait of Dr. Manhattan. He's so godlike, he's pretty much willing to drag his face in the dirt discard the thought of humanity for the sake of true justice (according to him, that is).

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

Riders aren't meant to be heroes that everyone can like, as I understand.

...What? That's the point of a Kamen Rider. They're pursuers of justice. We're meant to look up to them, to want to be them in one way or another. They don't HAVE to be the super-nice-guy, but I need to understand them. Kazami Shiro/V3 was a bit of a douche for the first 13 or so episodes, but that was the point. He was angsty, angry, and somewhat unpleasant to be around, but the writers gave reasoning, and always made sure that you understood it. He watched his family die, gets remade into something that can't even feel the touch of skin. They made it clear that he was reluctant, and yet wanted Destron to pay for what they did. By the 2/5 mark of the series, we saw him become more optimistic, and his goal for his war with Destron was protecting innocent people, not just revenge. We watch that shift, and even when he was filled with anger and isolated himself from others, we cared for him, because he never came off as arrogant or flat out nasty. He came off as someone who just got his life taken from him. Someone in this thread mentioned trauma, but if the writers don't use that card, then it's null and void. Tendou wasn't distant, he was an asshole.

 

[m121akuma]

Can anyone actually provide specific examples of Tendou being a jerk or truly uncaring to anyone? All that's ever made are broad statements about how horrible he is. Name moments in episodes and let's see if we can discuss whether or not he's actually being a jerk. That's the only way this conversation can go anywhere.

Last episode of the show. Kageyama is just sitting on the side of the road, slowly and obviously PAINFULLY being transformed into a monster by the stupid charm things around his neck. Tendou comes across him and knows that the what the amulets are doing to him, does absolutely NOTHING to help him, which would be as simple as taking them off or at least informing him what they're doing, and just walks away. Was Kageyama an asshole earlier in the series? Absolutely. But he did NOT deserve that kind of treatment. That really can't be seen as anything but a dick move.

Tsukasa doesn't bother me at all, because, unlike Tendou, there are actual consequences to his actions. He just swaggers into Kuuga's world, does his thing, acts like he's God's gift to mankind, and what happens? People die. A LOT of people, including Yashiro, who he obviously respected. Yes, the Grongi were already killing people without him, but his appearance accelerated the situation. When he's a dick to people, he's usually called out on it, and usually has to work to try and gain their trust. And he also blatantly shows that he has trouble empathizing with others, acknowledges this problem, and states that he has to rely on his friends (specifically Yuusuke) as his conscience. He's arrogant, yeah, but with this not-so-subtle undercurrent of self-loathing and insecurity about the fact that he's afraid all of the negative propaganda surrounding him might be right. I really don't get any sense of insecurity from Tendou, nor do I really see him be fallible, EXCEPT in God Speed Love. God Speed Love basically fixes Tendou (and a lot of Kabuto's issues in the process). We see him fail. We see him frustrated. We see his mask finally slip and we see him vulnerable and insecure. And in doing so, we see a Tendou that is infinitely more likeable. GSL Tendou is AWESOME, not because he's always right, but because he fucks up, and has to DEAL with that. I know why he's willing to sacrifice himself to create a better future, because he's already lost everything in this one.

 

[Dr Kain]

I don't hate those two necessarily (don't care for Tsukasa all that much because he had no personality, he was just a drone going through the motions), I hate the likes of Kaixa from 555 with a passion. That guy was a total dbag and got exactly what he deserved.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

We see him fail. We see him frustrated. We see his mask finally slip and we see him vulnerable and insecure. And in doing so, we see a Tendou that is infinitely more likeable. GSL Tendou is AWESOME, not because he's always right, but because he fucks up, and has to DEAL with that. I know why he's willing to sacrifice himself to create a better future, because he's already lost everything in this one.

THANK YOU! YES! That's 100% what I mean!
There is a complete difference between a controversial and isolated character and one that's entirely unlikable!
Look at Bruce Wayne from "The Dark Knight Trilogy." He purposefully isolates himself from everyone, but we still care about the character. Why? Because we understand him. Under the cowl and growls is a man who is willing to put himself in front of an entire city, willing to do whatever he needs to in order to keep it safe. We watch him as a child witness the death of his parents. We watch as he becomes the warrior we know and love. We watch as he falls in love, and holds onto her as his last strand of connection with the outside world. We watch as he desperately punches Bane, determined to keep onto his pride. We even watch him cry as his city burns, unable to do anything about it. For a character that forces himself to detach from everyone around him, we see him truly determined and emotional over his love for his city.
Tendou doesn't give us that feeling, ever. Tsukasa almost does, but then they constantly would turn him around into an unlikable doucheweed yet again. Philip was a great example of an isolated character still being likable. I cared about him. I wanted him to be happy, I wanted him to become the hero we knew he would be. He was socially awkward, and sometimes a jerk, and yet his intentions were always pure. I even liked him enough to ignore his girly outfit.

 

[Kamen Rider IXA]

Tsukasa is okay. I think most of people hate Decade-Rider and not Decade-Character. Tendo is a different story. I think I can never understand why he is being hated THAT MUCH. He, of course had his flaws like every Rider, but was just awesome, both as actor and character.

 

[Araki]

I don't hate those two necessarily (don't care for Tsukasa all that much because he had no personality, he was just a drone going through the motions), I hate the likes of Kaixa from 555 with a passion. That guy was a total dbag and got exactly what he deserved.

the problem is that we were supposed to hate Masato, unlike main heroes Tsukasa and Tendou.