Illegal Immigrants In America

[Z-Unit]

waits for the thread to get so out of hand that keith closes it :rolleyes2:

hell no! I shou never let a thread of mine get out of hand.


Besides the main point is, illegal immigrants are a problem, they need to be stopped. There are people who choose to argue with this and there comes a heated debate, I doubt Keith wont lock this until people start bashing each other, in which that point I'll leave the thread to burn.

 

[x1xBladex1x]

The way I see it, they're illegal. So that means it's not a good thing anyway. Problem: they take jobs from Americans. But, really, if Americans wanted those jobs, wouldn't they get them & there be no need for illegal immigrants/illegal importing of immigrants?? Well not exactly because the illegal immigrants will work for less pay. So, since there are some that are imported by americans, it's also the illegal importers that are a problem for breaking the law. So in general it's all a bunch of bad criminals that shouldn't be here in the first place, & illegal importers that would rather save money by breaking the law & importing them in.

 

[Kouji Kabuto]

It's not as simple as saying "they must be stopped." I believe there are other factors to think about. I'm not saying illegal immigrants should be tolerated, just that things aren't black and white. consider the following:

a) what if two illegal immigrants have a child on US soil? By definition the child is an american citizen...

b) or even if one illegal immigrant has a child with a US Citizen, should they be kicked out?

stuff like that

 

[ForeverRed]

ignore everything like crime rates. It's a CRIME to be in USA illegally. By coming into America illegally you are already breaking the law. If you want to live in the USA you need to come here the proper way and not just cross the border.

It doesnt matter what you think. Its do you think everyone should just be able to cross the border and become a US citizen just like that? Or do you think immigrants need to go through the process of becoming a legal citizen.

Well said.

This thread is going to get ugly. :redface2:

I agree. :shakefist

 

[Vash the Stampede]

I've been noticing on a few occasions that they're sorta like...ya know....taking alot of our jobs from our Americans.

THEY TUUK UR JEHBS!!!!!

But seriously folks, illegal immigration is an interesting issue. At one end, we're giving people opportunities, but at the same time, the US population is expanding and people ARE losing jobs.

 

[koji17]

I think there will always be a problem with illegal immigration just because U.S. is a one-of-a-kind nation, and because most americans aren't willing to accept less pay.

 

[Doggy Kruger]

I don't really see how the situation in the past was too different from what it is today. You have one major minority (yay contradiction!) coming to a new country looking for a better life. Yes, a good amount of the Irish that came here back then were legal, just like there are quite a few Mexicans and others that come the US in a legal manner, though thanks to the broken system, not as many as there could be, but there were also quite a few that didn't come here in a legal manner. I forgot to mention this in my last post, but I think one of the few differences is that there isn't as much racial discrimination these days in comparison to that situation because the world loves to be so PC and the slightest thing might offend someone these days.

One of the other reasons that I'm really not for something like abolishing citizenship by birth is because of how fickle certain people like to be. Ron Paul may be the son of legal immigrants, but I've heard of similar plans like his that would go as far as to deny citizenship to any person born under a parent that became a citizen through amnesty, and that would be an enormous amount of people being denied citizenship when they would likely have all right to be here.

"Abolish" may have been too strong a word, but to me it seems like he wants to fundamentally change things. It goes back to him opposing a generally agreed upon meaning for the amendment. I wasn't talking about the person that got here illegally, but then again, if they're here illegally and the country's laws prosecute them, they technically are under jurisdiction of the country, but that's a matter for a different day and just goes back to how fickle the world can be sometimes. My main point is that a person born here, on US soil, is under the jurisdiction of the country and therefore should be allowed to retain citizenship, regardless of the status of their parents. Getting rid of that is something that I can't really ever see myself supporting.

I've yet to see any proposal from any of the major candidates that I think would be a fair and tough stance on immigration. A lot of it is either amnesty under a different name or just fundamentally flawed. The only thing I agree with on the issue with the candidates is that the legal immigration system is broken and needs an overhaul, but like I said, I've yet to see anything that I think would truly bring about much needed changes.

As for his support, I do believe a lot of it is due to the media. When you consider the way CNN is today and how they will give anyone air time if they have a large enough following, I think that's what has helped Ron Paul out a lot. It's pretty pathetic that people fall back on the news for this stuff and don't do any leg work themselves, but I guess that's the type of world we live in these days. Anywho, I'm digressing here. I can't seem to find a list of who was in the Republican CNN YouTube debate, was Ron Paul in it? If he was, I think something like that could have also done wonders if he was given the right amount of air time, from watching the Democratic one, it seems that they more or less just gave major airtime to the big names.

By no means am I discrediting all the work his supporters have done, but I believe that given more air time, he would have quite a bit more in his campaign's pocket.


---
Right. About the locking of this thread, I don't see it happening. Everyone's being civil and all, and as long as it stays that way, we're in good shape.

The situation in the past was very different from the situation today. All it takes is a little research to see the difference. The immigrants from the 1800s did a lot for the American economy and we also had agents from America going to Europe asking people to come to ours. They made a difference in our country. But the types of immigrants today aren't really helping our economy at all. If anything they're just taking away our money and cutting in line.

Now I can understand why you don't support the end of birthright citizenship but it's just something that I honestly believe will teach them a lesson. They take advantage of it and that's when more of them come here illegally. And eventually when the children of the illegals start going to college, they get funded more than the students whose parents are legal citizens. It's just not fair at all in my eyes. Think about this: If the child is born on US soil, should the parents be deported back to their homeland and the child able to stay? As cruel as it sounds, I'm inclined to agree. Let the child stay, send the parents back home.

But anyways, there is a problem with amnesty and the only remedy is to get rid of it entirely in my opinion. If you think Ron Paul's support is due to the media, take it from someone who's been a supporter since he announced his run for presidency that it's not. Most of his support is through word of mouth and the internet. Only until recently has he been getting small media attention.

People who participated in the CNN republican debate were Romney, Giuliani, Thompson, McCain, Hunter, Tancredo, Paul, Huckabee and I can guaruntee that they purposely gave Ron Paul no debate time at all. And it's true. If he were given more airtime, he would definately have more supporters but that's sadly not the case. He's censored and omitted from poll results constantly. But Glenn Beck from CNN is actually giving him 1 hour of air-time on December the 18th. We're hoping it opens up the eyes of America.

He's not backed and funded by any corporations like all of the candidates are. He refuses corporate money and most of his money comes from the pockets of supporters. This is one example of what makes him very appealing to me.

 

[Mikazuki]

The way I see it, they're illegal. So that means it's not a good thing anyway. Problem: they take jobs from Americans. But, really, if Americans wanted those jobs, wouldn't they get them & there be no need for illegal immigrants/illegal importing of immigrants?? Well not exactly because the illegal immigrants will work for less pay. So, since there are some that are imported by americans, it's also the illegal importers that are a problem for breaking the law. So in general it's all a bunch of bad criminals that shouldn't be here in the first place, & illegal importers that would rather save money by breaking the law & importing them in.

I disagree with one thing and that's the jobs that illegals take ARE indeed jobs that people want. In my area, traditionally, jobs that were in the food industry and retail were taken by high school students, college students and unskilled, "uneducated" (past college) people. The jobs were minimum wage and sometimes up to several dollars above minimum wage. These jobs are now taken by illegals... at least in my area.

I could go on and on about the school districts in my area but I'll spare everyone my tirade on that.

 

[BorgmanJayce]

As someone who has mixed race ancestry including Chinese, Greek, English, Irish [and supposedly some Russian as well... and I don't mean vodka inside me!:laugh:], this discussion interests me greatly as one of my late grandmother's sisters emigrated to the US after World War II and married a USAF officer and now lives in the Syracuse area of New York State while one of my Uncles lives in Illinois and as far as I know is dual-citizen of both the US and the UK.

As for Ron Paul, I know I'll probably get flamed for this and if I do, I'm not bothered because I still believe in the power of free speech at the end of the day, but is it me or does Ron Paul come across as being like Hitler in some of his views especially the one on removing citizenship rights of children born in the US to illegal immigrants...

To be honest, the US should get their act together and improve the immigration system as it shouldn't take so long to turn certain illegal immigrants into legal citizens.

We have similar problems here in the UK with certain idiots claiming that immigrants; both legal and illegal are taking all our jobs and that when in reality, these same immigrants are willing to do these jobs only because a lot of us legal citizens aren't bothered in applying for them in the first place so you can see why employers would turn to immigrants for use as workers, it's because the majority are hard-working, trustworthy and honest whereas the majority of native people are seen as lazy work-shy bastards! [in my case, I want to work but I haven't been in work for a couple of years and yet I'm determined not to give up getting a job at the end of the day.]

Unfortunately, certain politicians and political parties [in particular, the Tory Party aka the Conservatives] are willing to play the Immigration card only to further their own selfish ends and in the majority of cases, it usually ends up blowing up in their faces...

Also, the Home Office who deal with Immigration in the UK have made quite a few cock-ups when it comes to dealing with immigration cases in that they've actually deported entire families who've had legal and valid reasons to stay in the UK because they've been left in fear of their lives in their native country such as the Darfamily who lived in the Bootle area of Liverpool and did a lot of good for the community until they got deported last year in what a lot of people are saying was done for politicial reasons just to keep the government in Pakistan on our side which I find disgusting and abhorrent, and if you think that's bad, there was a case involving a young teenage girl called Charlie Happi Kouamaka who was from Cameroon and got raped and later gave birth to the child of her village's chieftain all because she refused to become his latest wife. She managed to come over here and gave birth to his child in the Woman's Hospital in Liverpool which meant that the child would automatically become a UK citizen. She also wanted to give something back to the country which took her and her child in which is why she enrolled at the college I was at in Liverpool until the Home Office in their so-called "infinite wisdom" [NOT!] decided that she and the child had to be deported even though legally the child was a legal citizen of the UK due to him being born here and Miss Kouamaka had followed the proper procedures in applying for citizenship and had still been turned down because basically the Home Office were saying that she was lying, which is why I and I guess a lot of others in the UK swear that the Home Office is run by fuckwits, fucktards and fuckheads!:sweat:

Yes, there has to be moderation in immigration but if I was running the Home Office, I'd want to run it as a organisation that is willing to show compassion where needed to genuine victims instead of turning them away and letting terrorist scum and nutcases like Abu Hamza stay in our country.

At the end of the day, are we not all immigrants one way or another seeing as most of us will have ancestors who emigrated from other countries in search of a better life...

 

[Doggy Kruger]

Ron Paul being like Hitler is like saying George Bush being like Gandhi :rofl: