Foundation X & Continuity in Kamen Rider?

[NeonZ]

defensive much? the comparison is there to show a well written arch villain over a cheap cameo, and until Foundation X does something in the series, thats all they are right now.

Like I said before, even if they end up not having a big importance to the show, these appearances can help building a villain set up that goes beyond one show and can be used in crossovers - both movies and tv- as opposed to a cheap one shots villains or random resurrections.

All either of us have is our opinions, its not a contest. and no i don't believe megamax is canon, when would it take place? How come gentaro never mentions/reminices meeting OOO and W or Nadeshiko?

Episode 14, right in the middle of movie promotion, ended with Gentaro saying that he wanted to fall in love one day and the characters joking about how that'd never happen. That was obviously teasing the movie.

Later on, Gentaro goes on to mimic Eiji's battle cry and fighting style the first time he used the claw switch, before saying that he's kidding and switching to his actual style.

It's pretty obvious they don't want to make people following the show confused by references to events that never happened here, but they have included some minor stuff that doesn't get in the way of the enjoyment of people who aren't following the movies.

thats poor writing and on top of that a terrible market strategy.

What? Why is sponsoring Gamou for the development of a new technology "poor writing"?

I don't see why Gamou has to be making profits to make the partnership worth it to Foundation X. "Never" also wasn't something meant to make direct profit for their researchers, or that could be sold like Gaia memories, and yet they only were sidelined because Gaia Memories were shown to make stronger warriors. Foundation X seems to be interested in making weapons, not profitable business partners. Why would they even care about the profit of their business partners? I'm really failing to see your point. If they get their weapon technology, their investment is successful.

except for OOO, where the original writer didn't care about the continuity, so then they decided to go back and change that during megamax?

I think the issue here is the main producer, not writer. Takebe, OOO's producer, clearly isn't worried about continuity, not only between series, but even within different OOO works themselves. That's why OOO had 3 movies from three different writers and none could tie in with the show well. They were just made based on how the production was at the time. In spite of that, the movies got senseless references in the series (like Birth always using a Scorpion cell medal to transform, even though there was no Scorpion Core in the tv show or Ankh having a flashback to the anniversary episode) - so that shows they weren't trying to make alternate universes, they were just making movies/specials without worrying about how they fit together.

The OOO part of Megamax fits in with the show's ending not because there was a change of atittude of the OOO staff, but just because it was made after they were done with the series, so there was a solid ending to build upon, while they didn't seem to worry about what was going to happen in the future of OOO's tv show while making the movies in parallel to the tv series production (which start production earlier than the episodes that air around the time the movie opens on theaters).

That's the OOO staff though. I don't think Toei in general cares about continuity. If there's one right now, it seems to be mostly due to Tsukada himself. However, Takebe won't be returning to Rider for a while anyway, so it's very unlikely the OOO continuity mess will be repeated for a while. And, if the rumors of Utsunomiya (Shinkenger, Gokaiger) being the producer of the next Rider series turn out to be true, I think the continuity won't have problems this time, due to how he usually makes blatant movie tie ins in his tv shows.

 

[Kamen Rider ShinkenRed]

thats poor writing and on top of that a terrible market strategy.

It's also the only thing Foundation X have ever been seen to do. They fund weapons development, so that they can then use them for their own ends. In W all we knew about them is that they were funding Museum and had considered funding NEVER. Both of those projects' research could be used by the foundation for wepons.

It's also established that they didn't care about the aims of the groups researching those projects either. Only Kazu wanted to complete the Gaia Impact plan, and that was only due to his love for Saeko. The Foundation even used research that Museum had stopped using to make the T2 Memories.

Therefore Foundation X not caring about Gamou's aims is totally in line with what we already know of them.

 

[Khaiden]

Well obviously its my opinion, what i'm trying to do is understand another groups opinion, and you're not helping. Im not trying to argue, I'm writing what i think so someone else can understand my perspective and then provide their own. not to mention none of those series/movies you refer to (plenty of which i have seen) have anything to do with what i'm talking about. I'm strictly talking about the "continuity" of W onward. And no, just because kamen rider used to have "solid" continuity for 30 years does not mean that series afterward have to do the same.

Don't be mistaken, it's my opinions as well, besides a couple of facts. The way you worded your first post, it seemed to me like you were talking about the whole franchise, so I felt the need to tell you that Kamen Rider hasn't always treated it like this.

On the opinions matter

Obviously its my opinion, that doesn't make anything I'm saying less valid than what you're saying. All either of us have is our opinions, its not a contest. and no i don't believe megamax is canon, when would it take place? How come gentaro never mentions/reminices meeting OOO and W or Nadeshiko?

As I said, the only things I'm stating as facts are Megamax being canon (and NeonZ already covered the reasons why) and the 30-year continuity.
Take in mind, that if you choose to consider Megamax non-canon you are doing the same thing as the person who will think every Rider exists in the same world, they're creating their own universe and watch the series with that mindset.

but its flimsy, it doesn't hold any weight, and why establish continuity if you're not going to have stuff from the past come and influence the current plot in a significant way again? all i think that the fan base cares much, much more about the continuity than toei does, and i don't understand why.

Let's wait and see.

I love the franchise too, i also engage in fan theories, but i do not see the point of nor do i want continuity. i feel that forcing writers to keep continuity along with what they are writing already being HEAVILY affected by the toys designed for the show will bog them down and harm what would otherwise be a potentially brilliant story. I just don't feel its worth the effort. and there HAS TO BE a better reason why people want continuity so badly and i want to find out, thats the goal

I think we all just like it, it's a cool thing to have, it's nice to think the V3 that appeared in Megamax is the same V3 that defeated Destron in 1974, teamed with the other 6 in 1975 against the Delza Army, returned in All Riders vs DaiShocker and so on.
If the writer feels it's too much too handle, the references can be subtle. As they were in Fourze, outside of the movies.
Which brings me to my next point...

Also true, thats just my speculation, I dunno I just don't see any reason why the riders individual stories need to be tied together, i mean yeah it helps create a more cohesive world in ones imagination but i feel that people try to view it sort of like Star Wars (which obviously has a huge cohesive universe and a long documented history that is strongly adhered to usually) but i don't think it really works like that, and i personally enjoy the riders being separate as it allows each story to stand on its own merit and not have to be unfairly colored by the previous continuity.

The previous continuity is not necessarily a bug that latches onto the next series. V3 again as an example, it didn't have to acknowledge something from the previous series EVERY episode. A more subtle example is BLACK RX which is an even more direct sequel yet barely shows anything from BLACK.

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

How come gentaro never mentions/reminices meeting OOO and W or Nadeshiko?

If it's anything, he did do Eiji's "SEEEIIIYYAAA!!!1" scream shortly into the episodes after Megamax came out.

Why not have Ama High have a field trip to Fuuto?

They sorta did in the Cygnus arc. :loltongue:

It was Cygnus, right? When the KRC went into "Narumi Agency".

except for OOO, where the original writer didn't care about the continuity, so then they decided to go back and change that during megamax?

Now you got me thinking; what would a Kobayashi\Tsukada duo end up with?

 

[NeonZ]

I think we all just like it, it's a cool thing to have, it's nice to think the V3 that appeared in Megamax is the same V3 that defeated Destron in 1974, teamed with the other 6 in 1975 against the Delza Army, returned in All Riders vs DaiShocker and so on.
If the writer feels it's too much too handle, the references can be subtle. As they were in Fourze, outside of the movies.
Which brings me to my next point...

You've just reminded me... When the Rider club makes their presentation about the Showa Riders in Megamax, the papers in the wall have backstory and technical bits about them referencing the stories of the events of their original series. The Rider 1 one was posted on the Toei Fourze site back during the movie promotion.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

If it's anything, he did do Eiji's "SEEEIIIYYAAA!!!1" pose shortly into the episodes after Megamax came out.

i guess but i still see that as pretty damn flimsy, if they really wanna tie the shows together they should do it, but it should be more thought out cuz right now were getting winks and nods and if thats the pinnacle of this continuity, then it may as well not be there

They sorta did in the Cygnus arc. :loltongue:

It was Cygnus, right? When the KRC went into "Narumi Agency".

did they? hmm i must've missed that, if they did then this is the first time I'm hearing bout it

Now you got me thinking; what would a Kobayashi\Tsukada duo end up with?

good question, hmmmm...

 

[NeonZ]

did they? hmm i must've missed that, if they did then this is the first time I'm hearing bout it

Nah, people are just talking about how they reused the Narumi agency outside set during the Sygnus arc. It wasn't meant to be the Narumi agency itself.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

Nah, people are just talking about how they reused the Narumi agency outside set during the Sygnus arc. It wasn't meant to be the Narumi agency itself.

ahhh i see, well that would have been a decent connection. i dunno i realize I'm a lil biased cuz i don't think continuity is really all that necessary in kamen rider, but if they did more stuff like that i would be more supportive of the idea, from my perspective if they're going to commit to the continuity thing, id rather it not feel forced or too flimsy. like having gentaro & co. eat at the restaurant from OOO or something like that or having them actually go to the narumi office and meet akiko or something. but all of the attempts made seem kind of weak to me and in that case id rather not have it at all.

 

[rising7]

Continuity is an opportunity to build up characters, organizations or story elements over time. I think it's part of the reason the original riders are thought of and portrayed as some of the baddest dudes of all time.

I also like that loyal fans can get a sort of payoff for their continued viewership. It's not required but I find it a nice thing to have once in a while. I'd like to see more overt scenes connecting to past series but I'm also ok with the small doses so far.

 

[Wing Saber]

Foundation X happens to be this generation's Great Leader. However they happen to be investors than an evil entity. Which makes them very complex, since they don't care what the goals of the orginazations they fund as long as they get what they want. So to them, world peace or domination is very profitable. They'll only get involve directly, if the Riders start meddling in their affairs. But most of the times, they would keep their distance.

As for continuity, it was set up in W when Kazu told Ryubei that FX has other projects than just Gaia Memories. In fact during the finale they showed an interest in the O Medals. Right now they're currently invested in the Switches & Cosmic Energy.