Does anyone know why the Showa Rider series never used the Shocker Rider idea again?

[NeonZ]

Not necessarily "Shocker" Rider, of course, but, is there any reason that, after the original series, they never used the idea of making an opponent that was just like the Rider, only actually brainwashed and evil (or just evil)?

Well, there was Shadowmoon in Black, I guess, which one could say was an extremely developed form of that idea, expanded into part of the show's main premise. However, in the 6 tv shows between the original Kamen Rider and Black, they never used that idea again. When they wanted to make the Rider face a mirror match, they just featured a monster that could disguise himself as the Rider, rather than an actual Rider-like warrior made by the evil organization.

V3 (well, Riderman), Amazon, X and Skyrider all featured episodes with monsters that could transform into the Rider, with or without some design changes. Super-1 had a Super-1 robot made by Jin Dogma, but it was just used as a training dummy, rather than having any relevant role. So, they never attempted the Shocker Rider approach for even a single episode again.

Is there any known reason behind that? Were the Shocker Riders badly received somehow?

 

[Igadevil]

I think it's mostly to do with wanting to be unique and different with each successive show, because let's face it, it's hard to top the Shocker Riders at what they do. While subsequent fake Rider stories (or even evil double stories) are pretty good, that is the king of them all IMHO. They do the "monster becomes a fake Rider" thing a few times, but each time it's done differently than before. In a strange sort of way the Shocker Riders are actually kind of the beginning of that idea.

The original idea behind the Shocker Riders was they're literally "Fake Kamen Riders". They've got weird un-Riderish powers and no human identities. The belts don't really seem to have a purpose beyond aesthetics. Guidebooks tend to lump them in with the monsters, which is true of all the "evil Riders" until around Shadow Moon. Anything further is left mysterious, but they are not intended to be simply what you'd have gotten if Rider 1 and 2 were made evil. They're kind of a weird fusion of monster and Rider, which I think is what makes them wholly unique.

The versions in Kamen Rider THE NEXT run a bit closer to the Ishinomori comic, where they are just like evil and/or brainwashed Rider 1's, and Ichimonji even starts out as one of them.

 

[netro32]

Thats a good question. Logically, the writers probably didn't feel like doing it again. I mean look at the Riot Troopers, havent seen anything like them in a while. Maybe even budget problems, they could have had only enough money to make so many suits.

Now story wise, maybe they feared that the other riders would try to revert them back to good. I mean Black tried his hardest to get Shadowmoon to revert back to Nobuhiko.

 

[NeonZ]

So, you all think it's because the writers didn't want to repeat previous series? Kind of weird that they kept reusing the idea of monsters mimicking Riders then...

The original idea behind the Shocker Riders was they're literally "Fake Kamen Riders".

This is actually something I've been wondering about too... In recaps of the first series done during later shows, the Shocker Riders are just called "Shocker's Fake Riders" and, like you say, I've read about how later guidebooks classify them as standard kaijin.

However, in the original show itself, they're treated rather differently. They're only referenced as "Fake Riders" while trying to replace Hongo. Afterwards, they're just "Shocker Riders". They're never just plainly called "kaijin" and there's even that "8 Kamen Riders!" episode title. In the manga, they were called Kamen Riders by the narrator and even had human identities.

Yet, later on, they're basically treated exactly like the various monsters with transforming abilities that just happen to turn into Riders. I guess I can see your point about them being between Riders and monsters (Although, if you recall when Rider 1 was briefly brainwashed, he just walked around transformed all the time too, just like the Shocker Riders), but it still seems like something changed between the first series itself and the later ones, regarding their treatment.

 

[Aoi Kurenai]

I think you can't really compare the terminology of the manga to that of the TV show as it seems like a beast of its own.

Also, it does seem like in its early years, not a lot was set in stone for Kamen Rider, so different titles and such evolved throughout the years until we got a more or less stable idea of what they're intended to be after a certain point in time.

 

[KouAidou]

Maybe it wasn't so much "didn't want to re-use the idea" as "didn't want to re-use the idea unless they could think of a more interesting way to use it." Maybe going full-scale with it like Shadow Moon was the only way they could think to it again in a way that wouldn't just feel like a pale imitation.

Just an offhand thought, though.

 

[Hell Kaiser Andy]

Shocker Rider could easily have been a proto-type idea.
Shadow Moon went on to become the first "Evil-Rider" more direct I'd say.
From there on the concept evolved with the Heisei Riders starting with G4 and Ryuga.

 

[NeonZ]

Hm... So, it looks like there was never a big "stated reason", it just happened like that.

I was hoping otherwise, but if no one knows for sure, I guess not wanting to repeat the idea, or wanting to keep it for something that had a bigger focus make the most sense.

 

[Black Fang]

The versions in Kamen Rider THE NEXT run a bit closer to the Ishinomori comic, where they are just like evil and/or brainwashed Rider 1's, and Ichimonji even starts out as one of them.

So Ichimonji started out as a villain in the comics too? It wasn't just something created for the movies?

 

[Redryuranger11]

From what I recall from a site that summarized that event in the manga, Ichimonji was evil and actually killed Hongo, which at that point somehow (I don't remember) unbrainwashed Ichimonji and thus he became Kamen Rider 2.