Boukenger is awesome; but then why do so many people hate it?

[lazycoconut]

Not liking one show because others use it to bash another show is childish. I have seen you do this with more than just this show.

Well, too bad for you.

I still wouldn't like Boukenger either way. It was the second Sentai I watched after Magiranger, still my least favourite. After seeing Boukenger I was pretty much prepared to give up on Sentai, but then I found Timeranger

Well I don't think that's a valid conclusion to draw, a show being used to bash another show must make it bad. I will say Gaoranger is perhaps better in that it actually had more story (I'm not a fan of Bouken's Deka-like episodic structure). And Gokaiger... what did Gokaiger really do better than Boukenger once you take away the anniversary stuff?

People's reactions to shows can affect yours. Look at how many posters here have said they are put off watching something because of others' reaction to it or because it's "too popular" or "overrated" or something.

Boukenger has this distasteful and mean-spirited vibe to it, which Gokaiger and Gaoranger never did for me. See others' points on the team feeling like supervillains ...

I agree with Fantasy Leader's points about Gokaiger.

As for the rest, I don't know how "heroic" they felt but it may just be my memory. While they did undergo characterization, they were stock roles: Marvelous the "Look how awesome I am! Memes are born by me just standing around!" badass; Doc the bumbling meek kid, Luka the tomboy, Ahim the high-class girl, Joe the... actually, I don't know what Joe is.

I don't dislike them particularly, but I just don't recall anything so noteworthy about them.

I don't really get the appeal of the Boukengers:

Akashi, whose main point of appeal is that "he's not a screaming Red".
Masumi, who's like the emo-teen version of Black Condor, but without any of the elements that made that character good
Souta, who gave me that vibe that if anyone was going to snap and shoot one of the others in the head, it'd be him. And he sexually harasses Shizuka.
Natsuki. Now, characters like her can be done well - Homer Simpson, Patrick Star, etc. Their usual place is in a comedy with lots of cynical humour but Boukenger is not that kind of show. Natsuki doesn't act like a real child, but an adult with a mental delay. The writers do not treat this with respect.
Sakura, supposedly "different from all the other girls", but her ultimate reward is getting the guy and learning to smile - so, just like the other girls. I notice she's got less attention in fandom since the advent of Mako, who's a pretty similar character. It suggests to me that there wasn't really anything special about Sakura to start with.
Eiji was OK, but sort of fades into the background after his own arc is done.

When I watch a Sentai, I want to feel like the heroes are a good example to kids. With Boukenger, I didn't. They were cynical, spiteful, vicious, they had this constant running undercurrent of bitterness. Maybe others think they're "realistic" and thus like them better but for me, I don't want to see that from a Sentai team. Combined with the problem of the "Precious", they can easily come across more like villains than heroes.

 

[KingRanger]

Look at how many posters here have said they are put off watching something because of others' reaction to it or because it's "too popular" or "overrated" or something.

It's easier not to think for ones self. People need to stop making up their minds simply because some one else says something is good or bad. We have minds for a reason.

 

[redwhitesentai]

I'm big fan for Boukenger. For me this series is pretty balance on all aspect. The storyline is interesting and imaginative, remind me to children enthusiast in treasure huntering. The cast were lovely, after series of hot red ranger from Hurricaneger-Aba-Deka-Magi, Akashi is a calm and charming red.

Black and blue also awesome. Now pink is my all time favorite :anime:, maybe she was not as captivating as many other pink but she is interesting. Plus Haruka is....:O_O: Yellow is the least popular to me, but her backstory give enough compensation for it.

The show not overly serious, many unbelievable comedy up to the level of Gokaiger in many of episodes. The costume was also nice looking.

The three party villains is good idea. Twists in the ending making the story rich and not predictable.

 

[Ladymercury]

With Boukenger, I didn't. They were cynical, spiteful, vicious, they had this constant running undercurrent of bitterness. Maybe others think they're "realistic" and thus like them better but for me, I don't want to see that from a Sentai team. Combined with the problem of the "Precious", they can easily come across more like villains than heroes.

They were a bunch of adventurers looking for treasure. One episode was dedicated to the male cast cross-dressing horribly another episode made Boukenred catch on fire.

What the **** show you were watching? The illuminati version of Super Sentai?

Dey b the illuminati

this is clearly disgusting and vile

what an asshole. stop teaching japanese children that bad attitudes are ok, eiji.

 

[lazycoconut]

I didn't say the show was always serious. I just said I found the characters very unlikeable, as have others in this thread. The Illuminati version does sound fun, though ...

 

[Lynxara]

By definition, that wouldn't be possible under Boukenger's setting though.

Yes. I am saying, change that. It's not relevant to very much of the show's actual content, and changing it would cast a lot of things about the show in a more positive light. Almost all of the stuff you're rattling on about in Boukenger is not stuff that is mentioned regularly, or gets a lot of screen time. It doesn't really need to be there.

Mecha and transformation suits that aren't available to most of the world pretty much have to be tied to Precious in order to exist.

Why? We don't know how the robots in almost all other technology-themed Sentai work. Why do we need to know this about Boukenger? Why can't the robots just be something SGS built? I mean, it's not like where the robots came from actually comes up on a regular basis. You could easily cut this from the series and most episodes would be totally unaffected.

Also, I think your argument has a serious problem here. You say this:

The Precious, also by definition, have been abandoned by modern civilization for one reason or another, even if they were created by humanity, like the original plans of the Parallel Engines or the formula to create an homunculus (attributed to Paracelsus in Boukenger).

And then this:

However, the Boukenger being the only ones with Precious basically couldn't happen. Humanity would just naturally produce more of them during its existence - they're born from humanity's dreams. They aren't a limited resource that can be extinguished or controlled by a single person.

So... the Precious are things created by humanity, but they get their power when humanity forgets about them? Except humanity will always keep creating them? And you can use them, but that somehow doesn't stop them from being forgotten about? This doesn't make any sense. This part of your post is wholly self-contradictory.

So either you're confused and misspeaking, or even Boukenger's crazy errata material can't decide what the Precious actually are and where they come from. I mean, there's episodes of the actual show that completely contradict the "a Precious is something humanity has forgotten about" thing, since you've got multiple episodes about Boukenger taking fairly famous artifacts.

I can concede this could be a case of Aikawa having a very clear idea in mind, and other writers on the show like Arakawa and Kobayashi simply not supporting it in their own writing. But I'm pretty sure there's even Aikawa-written episodes that contradict both points of what Precious are supposed to be... which is just another argument for why it ought to be changed.

Production-wise, Toei could then just scrounge up whatever ratty old props they had laying around and called them "Precious".

NEON LIGHT BALL!! THE GREATEST PRECIOUS OF ALL!!

If you must explain to me how a Super Sentai robot works, then show me that ball sitting in the middle of a reactor core. That should be all of the explanation anybody ever needs.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

I still love Boukenger to pieces. I know its got flaws, but there are just so many moments in that series that I adored. From their use of awkward stop motion, the more episodic plots, or that the filler eps were still fun and worth watching. This series isn't my favorite but I just had so much fun watching it.

 

[Midori Ken]

Lynxara, while this delusion is really entertaining, I'm afraid I feel compelled to re-establish the show's honor in order to restore the heroic legacy of Super Sentai. Now how should I start. Oh, right.

[HIDE]重妄想!(ズキューーン~♥)

*Cue Music*

Red, Grey, Sepia, SalmonPink, and MossGreen form my favorite Sentai.
Zyuusouken was the name I wanted, but I screwed up forum registration....

痛さは強さ! ひきこもり戦士 アキバグリーン![/HIDE]
One thing I think you've massively overlooked is the theme of Science vs. Supernatural. This theme is emphasized by the battles between the Boukengers and the Negative Syndicates. In fact, their conflict with Gaja (who was the most overtly magical one) bookends the series. In the case of unconquerable magic, it is Science's burden to keep it in check, lest new discoveries end the world on a weekly basis. There has to be a lot of stories that do this, though Warehouse 13 is the only one I can think of right now.

Also, I think your argument has a serious problem here.

So... the Precious are things created by humanity, but they get their power when humanity forgets about them?

Except humanity will always keep creating them? And you can use them, but that somehow doesn't stop them from being forgotten about? This doesn't make any sense. This part of your post is wholly self-contradictory.

First up, let me attempt to clarify your misunderstanding of what NeonZ wrote. Of course, I do not speak for him, but this is what I think he meant. Precious are defined by being physically or technologically superior to any current human technology. It is later revealed that they were created by the hopes and dreams of humanity. Every Precious comes withe a story. It's not that they're forgotten about that gives them power, it's that these legends still exist somewhere in the cultural consciousnous, while modern civilization no longer embraces the superstitions that gave rise to them. For example, in action fiction, even if The Bible is limited to metaphorical power, if the Spear of Longinus were to make an appearance, it almost always takes on the properties of the Irresistible Force Paradox.

But yeah, just because Humanity can continue to create them, don't discount just what goes into it, and the time it takes for societies to change to bring forth new myths and legends. We know how oil is made, but it's still one of the most worrisome resources scares right now, along with fresh water. So hey, I guess the world of Boukenger has reached Peak Precious! In fact, if our age of technology never ceases, new superstitions may never form!

The only exception to the traditional origin of Precious is the Manuscript of Leon Giordana, which can be explained. Renaissance Scientist Leon Giordana created them. He is also Mr. Voice, and owns SGS. This means the Parallel Engine is entirely manmade, but he could have programmed into the Accelular (an offshoot of his invention) a Hazard Level for any reproduction of his plans because it fit the characteristic of "dangerous in the wrong hands". His morals were never in question, so it was never touched upon, but it can be explained. Sure, it's a bit selfish to not peer-review the perfected Parallel Engine, but he had a purpose in mind, he wanted a trump card to even the odds against any evildoers. Having his operative arm enforce his intellectual property is vigilantism, but almost all Super Sentais are as well.

Yeah, pseudo-immortality is kinda sketchy if he has to transplant his soul, but since he was only displayed as a force for good, we can give him the benefit of the doubt and presume that those are artificial bodies created from Precious research. Because his concept is kinda villain-y, he might have been evil at some point, but got shown the right path after fighting some sort of Renaissance Sentai and has spent centuries since looking for redemption. Presently, he's a huge pervert at worst (for using a female body). Or maybe Leon was a Leona all along, and she first used a male pseudonym to earn respect in the scientific community of the time, and it kind of stuck.

Throughout the series, SGS has only regularly used three Precious. The Parallel Engines, the Scale of the Salamander, and the Golden Sword. The Scale is needed to operate the Accel-Tector (which is in the testing phase). The Golden Sword Zuban is sentient and can choose who may wield it. It chose Akashi. After he ducked off to Space, ownership was presumably passed on to Natsuki (she was shown with it, not Masumi, who was the new Chief), as she is the last surviving Lumerian. So they are not shown abusing the usage of Precious.

This one example is what the last S stands for in SGS. They safeguard Precious, and then pass it on to any legitimate successors when they can handle it. Natsuki gets a pass because she fights as a warrior. The world at large gets them from researching the useful mechanisms, historical items get put in museums, returned to their countries, etc. Even though created from means that are not understood, magic in this setting can still be interpreted as sufficiently high technology, so it will take a massive amount of time and manpower to uncover their secrets. This is because they can reliably produce the phenomena, which means they can be studied, and the phenomena can be falsified. For example, the Pipe of Hamelin currently only has an application in murdering children, but maybe after understanding some of the mechanics involved, a path to teleportation technology is opened.

To summarize, you gave a compelling argument that SGS acted like an Evil Organization due to one interpretation of the facts. But I counter that since this entire show portrays them as a force for good, and that they are the official 30th Super Sentai, so long as there is a plausible explanation for any questionable action, they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

And yes, without the benefit of context, SGS does look like they are hoarding weapons of unimaginable power, and are thus a threat, but do you know who else came across like that?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoBLtLwpQQ"]Ghostbusters Scene[/ame]

Boukenger might have been boring, it might not have amounted to much, but at least it's not as terrible as FiveStar Squad AkibaRanger right?

NEON LIGHT BALL!! THE GREATEST PRECIOUS OF ALL!!

Spoilers! That's the main plot point of Super Hero Taisen ZX: Beach Party of Revenge

 

[Ladymercury]

I didn't say the show was always serious. I just said I found the characters very unlikeable, as have others in this thread. The Illuminati version does sound fun, though ...

but

They were cynical, spiteful, vicious, they had this constant running undercurrent of bitterness.

It's a children's show. Y'all don't have to like it; that's fine. It wasn't marketed towards you guys in the first place. These shows are written for the mentality of a toddler. If you want to dig for a deeper message, go right on ahead, but you gotta be really digging to come up to the conclusion that a children's show had a cast of cynical, spiteful, vicious, illumantis.

 

[NeonZ]

Why? We don't know how the robots in almost all other technology-themed Sentai work. Why do we need to know this about Boukenger? Why can't the robots just be something SGS built?

Due to the definition of the precious. They're any unusually high power. The Boukenger's mecha and suits are an unusually high power considering how they aren't common technology in the Boukenger's world.

I mean, it's not like where the robots came from actually comes up on a regular basis. You could easily cut this from the series and most episodes would be totally unaffected.

The whole Questers plotline was initially tied on that aspect, actually, with Gaja being able to remember the plans and making his own versions of the parallel engines, which also countered the original parallel engines, eventually leading to the Neo Parallel Engines and BoukenSilver.

So... the Precious are things created by humanity, but they get their power when humanity forgets about them?

I don't see how you could read it like that... Was my explanation that bad?

Here's an example: Regarding the Parallel Engines - Leon Giordanno made sketches of them, but he hid the sketches because he thought it was a dangerous technology to give to the public. So, they weren't integrated by humanity, and the civilization in general failed to create something that could match the parallel engines. As a result, the Parallel Engines are above modern technology and even the plan to create the engines is considered a Precious.

If those sketches had been discovered and widely spread, and Parallel Engines were a standard technology in the Boukenger's present world, freely available to humanity, then they wouldn't be above humanity's current technology anymore, because they'd be integrated by it, and wouldn't be considered a precious. They wouldn't lose power due to that, they just wouldn't be special anymore and so not a Precious.

It's not like the precious suddenly "gains" some special power, they're special because for one reason or another (magic, alchemy, new unique technology that for some reason was never adopted by humanity, ancient technology from lost civilizations) someone built or found something far more powerful than current technology would usually allow.

The idea of them being humanity's dream and hopes comes from them being... ideas made by humans, or things that humanity wants to obtain, remembered through the legends and stories associated with each one. Humanity won't stop dreaming about new things or wanting more treasures, so they'll presumably continue to appear and exist.

The only exception to the traditional origin of Precious is the Manuscript of Leon Giordana, which can be explained.

Actually, there are more Precious which were directly attributed to humans - even ones not associated with magic or alchemy. The precious featured in task 5 was a blueprint to create a weapon from early 20th century, without any special power by itself (although the weapon itself would surpass current technology), similar to the Giordana manuscript.