Anita Sarkeesian: I Am Not A Gamer

[FlashNeko]

Certainly, she seems to go out of her way to NOT enjoy a game. Even a game that, at the time of her complaint, hadn't even come out yet (The Wonderful 101.)

Why are you assuming that because she's being critical of an aspect of a game (which was already out in Japan with plot spoilers being available on the internet to study) that somehow means she hates the entire product?

They are demanded that developers not portray the characters they create in a certain way. This, at least to me, comes off as an attempt to stifle free speech and creativity. It's not something I would ever want to support even though it may result in games that make me feel uncomfortable.

The start of all her Tropes videos has a segment where she says it's okay to still enjoy a product that has a trope in it. The trope in and of itself is not always the problem. The problem starts when those limited amount of tropes are all that the vast majority of any product in the medium has.

It's not about trying to censor people. It's about raising awareness that a lot of games are limiting both what they can do and what audiences they can reach through the unconscious and socially accepted Tropes they engage in.

And I feel that's a subject worth talking about, even if it's just to bring attention to how many examples exist.

Like seriously, the segment in the second video where she just lists how many modern games do the "your wife is murdered, your daughter is kidnapped" is eye-opening just for the pure number of games that do it.

 

[Fox-Chan]

Why are you assuming that because she's being critical of an aspect of a game (which was already out in Japan with plot spoilers being available on the internet to study) that somehow means she hates the entire product?

I believe the comment was made at least a week before the game was released in Japan.

The reason I took certain offense to the comment itself is that she fails to recognize that all the characters are over-the-top stereotypes. Instead, she chooses to pick only at Wonder Pink.

The start of all her Tropes videos has a segment where she says it's okay to still enjoy a product that has a trope in it. The trope in and of itself is not always the problem. The problem starts when those limited amount of tropes are all that the vast majority of any product in the medium has.

It's not about trying to censor people. It's about raising awareness that a lot of games are limiting both what they can do and what audiences they can reach through the unconscious and socially accepted Tropes they engage in.

And I feel that's a subject worth talking about, even if it's just to bring attention to how many examples exist.

Like seriously, the segment in the second video where she just lists how many modern games do the "your wife is murdered, your daughter is kidnapped" is eye-opening just for the pure number of games that do it.

I have no qualms about her raising awareness about women in video games. I like that she wants to push developers to do different things with their games. Asking that developers avoid recycling the same concepts but with a new coat of paint isn't what I have against her.

It's when she attacks games that decides they want to go in a direction that differs from her viewpoints. Which, unfortunately, can be as simple as the main character having a set of testicles.

Also, I really don't buy that she doesn't want us to feel bad for enjoying games with these tropes. In fact, I think it's absolute bullshit.

On the "your wife is murdered, your daughter is kidnapped" plot. It is one thing I do find a bit disturbing but not necessarily because a lot of games do it. The most disturbing thing about it is that it's really only treated as an end-goal. There's no emotional connection to be made at all.

 

[KingOfCaramel]

Like seriously, the segment in the second video where she just lists how many modern games do the "your wife is murdered, your daughter is kidnapped" is eye-opening just for the pure number of games that do it.

Except that it isn't the case with a vast majority of games in the medium. It only really happens in a couple of genres (mainly action/adventure and shooters). If you look at the top selling games, you'll find that most of them don't even use the trope.

 

[angelicnoir]

I admit my awareness of Anita and Feminist Frequency is very surface level. I still stand by that what she brings up openly and loudly is a topic that needed to be broached. I read her Twitter feed sparingly and still like the concept of "The Legend of the Last Princess."

What I'm noticing is while the topic she's presenting is valid (yes, there needs to be a diversity of story in gaming), she seems as unnecessarily aggressive toward any opinion that opposes hers, for example, dismissing them as nothing more than "angry gamer dude" rants.

Someone sent me this blog post highlighting Anita not crediting her sources, which is immensely disappointing and, well, shady as hell.

But I wonder how much of her attitude, presentation, and questionable practices is because she needed to be aggressive and angry in order for the original message of "We need more diverse characters and storytelling" to be heard.

I mean, the fact we're having a pretty good discussion just means she was definitely heard.

 

[KingOfCaramel]

What I'm noticing is while the topic she's presenting is valid (yes, there needs to be a diversity of story in gaming), she seems as unnecessarily aggressive toward any opinion that opposes hers, for example, dismissing them as nothing more than "angry gamer dude" rants.

That's my main issue with her. She stimulated (it was going on long before her) the discussion but is not open minded about it as everyone else seems to be. As soon as someone is critical about her approach they get labeled into an ironically stereotyped group of people, even if the people criticizing are female themselves!

For some reason, she claims people criticizing her are against change in the industry, which is not true. Many gamers would like to see more diversity in video games. It's something that is slowly but surely coming, so I don't see why we need someone like her to "change" the industry for the better.

 

[Fox-Chan]

But I wonder how much of her attitude, presentation, and questionable practices is because she needed to be aggressive and angry in order for the original message of "We need more diverse characters and storytelling" to be heard.

I mean, the fact we're having a pretty good discussion just means she was definitely heard.

The need to be aggressive in her pursuit does not excuse her from not crediting her sources and dismissing all arguments against her as angry male gamers. If this was an academic essay, she likely wouldn't even get a passing grade.

 

[angelicnoir]

That's my main issue with her. She stimulated (it was going on long before her) the discussion but is not open minded about it as everyone else seems to be. As soon as someone is critical about her approach they get labeled into an ironically stereotyped group of people, even if the people criticizing are female themselves!

For some reason, she claims people criticizing her are against change in the industry, which is not true. Many gamers would like to see more diversity in video games. It's something that is slowly but surely coming, so I don't see why we need someone like her to "change" the industry for the better.

I totally understand that and share your concerns as well. I don't think she necessarily does the right thing consistently; at the same time, she doesn't deserve some of the truly disturbing feedback she's getting.Some of the trolling she received is just flat out disgusting.

And as someone who even experienced that type of harassment, it can be pretty traumatic. So, again, I wonder how much of her attitude is just a way to protect herself from that kind of response. Just dismissing all opposing opinion, even valid ones with open minded and kind people.

This doesn't mean I'm excusing or justifying her behavior, just trying to find an explanation.

Her voice may not necessarily be "needed" in the discourse about how video game narrative needs to change and is changing, but I think she is worth listening to, if nothing for 1) continuing to raise awareness and 2) understanding the disturbing feedback she receives isn't unique to her and 3) knowing what not to do when trying to change a long established concept.

The need to be aggressive in her pursuit does not excuse her from not crediting her sources and dismissing all arguments against her as angry male gamers. If this was an academic essay, she likely wouldn't even get a passing grade.

Oh, I completely agree! I'm honestly not excusing her behavior and actions at all.

I'm honestly trying to see if there's a legitimate explanation for her questionable actions and not to be dismissive of her as a whole person.

Her concerns can be legitimate and needs to be voiced and in the same breath, the critiques against her methods and her aggressive reactions against them are valid and needs to be highlighted as well.

I don't believe these two concerns cancel each other out-- just like how I can totally call people out for slut-shaming a 20 year old pop artist and still be upset at her for objectifying black women.

 

[Fox-Chan]

I totally understand that and share your concerns as well. I don't think she necessarily does the right thing consistently; at the same time, she doesn't deserve some of the truly disturbing feedback she's getting.Some of the trolling she received is just flat out disgusting.

And as someone who even experienced that type of harassment, it can be pretty traumatic. So, again, I wonder how much of her attitude is just a way to protect herself from that kind of response. Just dismissing all opposing opinion, even valid ones with open minded and kind people.

This doesn't mean I'm excusing or justifying her behavior, just trying to find an explanation.

Her voice may not necessarily be "needed" in the discourse about how video game narrative needs to change and is changing, but I think she is worth listening to, if nothing for 1) continuing to raise awareness and 2) understanding the disturbing feedback she receives isn't unique to her and 3) knowing what not to do when trying to change a long established concept.



Oh, I completely agree! I'm honestly not excusing her behavior and actions at all.

I'm honestly trying to see if there's a legitimate explanation for her questionable actions and not to be dismissive of her as a whole person. Her concerns can be legitimate and needs to be voiced and in the same breath, the critiques against her methods and her aggressive reactions against them are valid and needs to be highlighted as well.

I am sorry for your experiences. I really know the feeling of being personally attacked on the internet by trolls. And not even because of my opinion but for my physical appearance.

However, while I don't doubt that trolls have targeted Anita and that their behavior is nasty. Anita only ever brings them up when mentioning dissenting opinion. It is completely disingenuous and allows her to avoid patching up the holes in her arguments.

 

[KingOfCaramel]

I totally understand that and share your concerns as well. I don't think she necessarily does the right thing consistently; at the same time, she doesn't deserve some of the truly disturbing feedback she's getting.Some of the trolling she received is just flat out disgusting.

And as someone who even experienced that type of harassment, it can be pretty traumatic. So, again, I wonder how much of her attitude is just a way to protect herself from that kind of response. Just dismissing all opposing opinion, even valid ones with open minded and kind people.

This doesn't mean I'm excusing or justifying her behavior, just trying to find an explanation.

Her voice may not necessarily be "needed" in the discourse about how video game narrative needs to change and is changing, but I think she is worth listening to, if nothing for 1) continuing to raise awareness and 2) understanding the disturbing feedback she receives isn't unique to her and 3) knowing what not to do when trying to change a long established concept.



Oh, I completely agree! I'm honestly not excusing her behavior and actions at all.

I'm honestly trying to see if there's a legitimate explanation for her questionable actions and not to be dismissive of her as a whole person. Her concerns can be legitimate and needs to be voiced and in the same breath, the critiques against her methods and her aggressive reactions against them are valid and needs to be highlighted as well.

Internet trolling isn't unique to her, and it certainly is a legitimate issue. However, I think it's counter productive to her cause. I think a lot of her critics would take her more a bit more seriously if she didn't constantly bring it up, and instead just focused on her critiques in gaming. Playing the victim card seems to only appeal to her audience of feminist, and helps rally them against opposing opinions, allowing them to be labeled as "hateful trolling". However, it doesn't get gamers on her side, which is who she appears to be targeting in the first place.

I do wonder though how much impact she'll leave on the gaming or online communities. Certainly she has a strong impact on feminist, but how long will she remain a figure in gaming? Will she end up actually making any change? For me, I kind of doubt it, but it certainly surprises me how long this has been going on.

 

[FlashNeko]

I dunno, I'm honesrlt not getting where people are saying she's somehow being horribly, dismissively aggressive from.

I've seen her videos and they're about as non-insulting on the subject as you can get. Not to mention her responses to some of the most horrid comments a person could possibly receive on the internet are amazingly restrained (if I was in her shoes, I would have used FAR more colorful language to describe these jerks).

It just feels like that, since her detractors are using nothing but personal attacks and/or calling out the most nit-picky of nitpicks about her descriptions of some of the games to discredit her entire works, they're making the assumption she's doing the same back.

I have honestly yet to see one legitimate counter-argument with hard, indisputable facts behind it. Any counter-argument I've seen has boiled down to one of five laughably bad points:

1) "Misogyny's a lie! Video games are full of mysandry instead!"

2) "She's just a meanie feminist who hates all men for being men because she's a feminist so anything she says is meant to cut off men's balls!"

3) Horrible, sexist insults about how they want to rape her, kill her and then rape her corpse because "that'll put all Feminists in their place". (And from what I've seen in the past, it's the ones who use this response who get called "angry gamer dudes"... because they are.)

4) "I like this character so how dare you point out flaws and elements of their plot arc that others might be uncomfortable with or dislike because I like this character!"

5) "It feels like she's doing [underhanded thing] to get her videos out, so even though we have zero real evidence that she's doing [underhanded thing] we're going to say she's doing it anyway."

It's just disheartening to see nerds, a group you'd think would understand how it feels to be marginalized and rejected by the world to a degree, prove to be even less accepting of people wanting better treatment for themselves for no other reason than to protect their privilege.