Wizard First Quarter Review

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
Well episode 12 is out and, assuming that Wizard will run for roughly the same length as the last three Rider shows, that means that we are actually a quarter of the way through the 'new' show already. Clearly there's still a massive amount to come: new movies, new Styles, a new secondary rider, a jewellery store's worth of rings and the ongoing mysteries of Wiseman and the White Wizard. But I think we're probably far enough in that we've gotten past those first reactions and initial impressions, and have something of a grasp as to what the show is really like. So, what do you think of the show? Did it surpass your expectations? Did it disappoint you? Has it turned out to be nothing like you initially thought? Let me know your thoughts on the show as a whole so far, rather than just individual episodes.
 

Tendou Soujiro

Kamen Rider Dark Kabuto
It has the potential to be one of the best Kamen Rider series but there are a few things that really let me down.

-Still really kiddy. It's been a while since we've had a modern series that was dark. W is the closest thing we've got but it isn't enough IMO. Considering how ridiculously lighthearted Fourze was, I expected something darker than usual for Wizard.

-Form upgrades are not taken seriously by anyone, not even the user. They are stated to have consequences later on but they've been used about 4 times now.(3 for Flame Dragon and 1 for Hurricane Dragon) It's a major problem since the base forms are almost pointless now.

-The villains don't really foreshadow anything and they haven't left a single hint as to what their real goal is. All they've done for the past 3 months is try to create Phantoms despite the fact a random Phantom pops up out of nowhere every week anyway. Time will probably tell but the first quarter is already over, you have to at least hint what the hell these guys are up to and why they're even here.

-Regarding the villains again, Phoenix is a joke. Despite looking awesome and having a badass sword, he's all talk. He got killed by the first form upgrade...and there's still more upgrades on the way. He's supposed to be some sort of cliched evil and crazy villain but he's way too weak to even fulfill that role. The fact he's scared of Medusa does not help his case. I hope he gets another form or something in the future because there's no way Haruto will take him seriously by the time he gets his All Dragon style or whatever it'll be called.

-The cast in general is way too small and half of them are useless. The villain side only has 3 people, though there could be more but we can't be sure on that. The main cast only has 5 people and 3 of them don't do ****. There's no reason for Rinko and Shunpei to even hang out at Haruto's place anymore and we know nothing about Koyomi except for the fact she's the cutest girl on the show. I know that the cast is small enough as it is, but there's no point in having a big cast if none of them are relevant to the situation.

So far I'm not blown away or anything but this will definitely be a really good series.
 
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bleachjoj

Member
It has the potential to be one of the best Kamen Rider series but there are a few things that really let me down.

-Still really kiddy. It's been a while since we've had a modern series that was dark. W is the closest thing we've got but it isn't enough IMO. Considering how ridiculously lighthearted Fourze was, I expected something darker than usual for Wizard.

-Form upgrades are not taken seriously by anyone, not even the user. They are stated to have consequences later on but they've been used about 4 times now.(3 for Flame Dragon and 1 for Hurricane Dragon) It's a major problem since the base forms are almost pointless now.

-The villains don't really foreshadow anything and they haven't left a single hint as to what their real goal is. All they've done for the past 3 months is try to create Phantoms despite the fact a random Phantom pops up out of nowhere every week anyway. Time will probably tell but the first quarter is already over, you have to at least hint what the hell these guys are up to and why they're even here.

-Regarding the villains again, Phoenix is a joke. Despite looking awesome and having a badass sword, he's all talk. He got killed by the first form upgrade...and there's still more upgrades on the way. He's supposed to be some sort of cliched evil and crazy villain but he's way too weak to even fulfill that role. The fact he's scared of Medusa does not help his case. I hope he gets another form or something in the future because there's no way Haruto will take him seriously by the time he gets his All Dragon style or whatever it'll be called.

.

I have to disagree. It's pointless to complain about being to kiddy for a kids show. And the death filled ritual certainly wasn't lighthearted. And the phantoms are actively trying to kill people compared to the last few years.

The Dragons Forms were never said to have an instant back lash. Dragon said that constantly using would drive Haruto closer to despair. Then Haruto says it should be fine if he keeps using it.

Have to disagree about Phoenix. I think he's been a great villain. 8 and 9 showed how brutal he was. It was also said that he killed a gate as well. There is nothing wrong with him being scared of Medusa since she seems to run things.

And we had a whole two arcs explaining what Koyomi is.
 

Painted_Outlaw

The new Tendou Souji
Have to disagree about Phoenix. [..] It was also said that he killed a gate as well.

So? Gamel turned a car full of people into Cell Medals, is he a great villain? :laugh:

Seriously though, something like that doesn't automatically mean the person's... to be frank, it's pretty much liking him for dumb reasons.
 

Tendou Soujiro

Kamen Rider Dark Kabuto
I have to disagree. It's pointless to complain about being to kiddy for a kids show. And the death filled ritual certainly wasn't lighthearted. And the phantoms are actively trying to kill people compared to the last few years.

The Dragons Forms were never said to have an instant back lash. Dragon said that constantly using would drive Haruto closer to despair. Then Haruto says it should be fine if he keeps using it.

Have to disagree about Phoenix. I think he's been a great villain. 8 and 9 showed how brutal he was. It was also said that he killed a gate as well. There is nothing wrong with him being scared of Medusa since she seems to run things.

And we had a whole two arcs explaining what Koyomi is.

Kamen Rider has demonstrated its ability to be dark multiple times. Most of them were during the Showa era but there are good examples in the Heisei era as well. The ceremony isn't exactly dark even though it is literally. There's nothing that implies they're really trying to kill people, all we've been seeing is the birth of new Phantoms. Killing people is an awful motive for the big bad, it's obvious that there's something else we don't know.

That's the point. After 4 uses we have no idea what Dragon is talking about. Haruto's words don't mean anything compared to the Dragon that's giving him the power in the first place.

How is that a feat? That just proved my point. Beating the crap out of someone who is over 10 times weaker than you is nothing. It's great that he is sadistic but he'd have to demonstrate that sadism on Wizard in order for that to have any significance. Same applies to Phoenix killing a Gate before. He's just all talk and hasn't done crap. He has potential but his power level and accomplishments are nothing. Letting Medusa take control is incredibly cliched and kinda dumb if you think about it. That basically means Phoenix will be her ***** for a while, downplaying him even more.

Proving my point again, those arcs didn't explain anything useful about her. We know what she is but that's irrelevant if we don't know why she's there. Even Haruto only knows that he has to protect her, but why is the important question.
 

KingRanger

Banned
It has the potential to be one of the best Kamen Rider series but there are a few things that really let me down.

-Still really kiddy. It's been a while since we've had a modern series that was dark. W is the closest thing we've got but it isn't enough IMO. Considering how ridiculously lighthearted Fourze was, I expected something darker than usual for Wizard.

-Form upgrades are not taken seriously by anyone, not even the user. They are stated to have consequences later on but they've been used about 4 times now.(3 for Flame Dragon and 1 for Hurricane Dragon) It's a major problem since the base forms are almost pointless now.

-The villains don't really foreshadow anything and they haven't left a single hint as to what their real goal is. All they've done for the past 3 months is try to create Phantoms despite the fact a random Phantom pops up out of nowhere every week anyway. Time will probably tell but the first quarter is already over, you have to at least hint what the hell these guys are up to and why they're even here.

-Regarding the villains again, Phoenix is a joke. Despite looking awesome and having a badass sword, he's all talk. He got killed by the first form upgrade...and there's still more upgrades on the way. He's supposed to be some sort of cliched evil and crazy villain but he's way too weak to even fulfill that role. The fact he's scared of Medusa does not help his case. I hope he gets another form or something in the future because there's no way Haruto will take him seriously by the time he gets his All Dragon style or whatever it'll be called.

-The cast in general is way too small and half of them are useless. The villain side only has 3 people, though there could be more but we can't be sure on that. The main cast only has 5 people and 3 of them don't do ****. There's no reason for Rinko and Shunpei to even hang out at Haruto's place anymore and we know nothing about Koyomi except for the fact she's the cutest girl on the show. I know that the cast is small enough as it is, but there's no point in having a big cast if none of them are relevant to the situation.

So far I'm not blown away or anything but this will definitely be a really good series.


It's a kid series. There hasn't been any "dark" Kamen Rider series. I also fail to see how anyone can use "it's not dark enough" as a negative when describing a show in the Kamen Rider franchise.

We are only 12 episodes in. There is nothing pointless about any of the forms. You just have to watch the episodes to know this. And who are you talking about when you say, "No one takes them seriously".. I hope you are not talking about the fans of the show because you can not speak for them.

They are there to make more phantoms. That is all we know right now. Of course there will be a reason why. It might be the generic to take over the world, but who cares. There is a reason. Your logic here makes little to no sense.

It sounds to me like you are one of those people that is like "I need everything told to me now. I can not wait to see what happens. I want no surprises. I want all characters to have a set point to their existence at all times no questions"
 

Tendou Soujiro

Kamen Rider Dark Kabuto
It's a kid series. There hasn't been any "dark" Kamen Rider series. I also fail to see how anyone can use "it's not dark enough" as a negative when describing a show in the Kamen Rider franchise.

We are only 12 episodes in. There is nothing pointless about any of the forms. You just have to watch the episodes to know this. And who are you talking about when you say, "No one takes them seriously".. I hope you are not talking about the fans of the show because you can not speak for them.

They are there to make more phantoms. That is all we know right now. Of course there will be a reason why. It might be the generic to take over the world, but who cares. There is a reason. Your logic here makes little to no sense.

It sounds to me like you are one of those people that is like "I need everything told to me now. I can not wait to see what happens. I want no surprises. I want all characters to have a set point to their existence at all times no questions"

There were numerous dark elements in a bunch of Kamen Rider series. The more of those, the darker the series. This series does not have many dark elements, simple as that. Considering that most of us here are men, we want something that can appeal to us as well, even if it's toku.

Only? Considering how fast the first quarter went by and that we have 3 more to go, it's quite a big deal. The problem with the upgrades having no downsides is the fact that the base forms will be pointless. For example, why use Flame Style when Flame Dragon is significantly stronger and has no downside? When I say no one takes them seriously, I am talking about the cast. Why the hell would I speak for the fans in that context?

They are obviously there to make new Phantoms but we don't know why. Any 12 year old would think they'll probably just kill people once they reach their goal but considering the concept of Phantoms and how they are made, there's obviously a secret agenda somewhere.

I understand that I type fairly long posts but do understand what the hell the context I'm speaking in is.
 

KingRanger

Banned
There were numerous dark elements in a bunch of Kamen Rider series. The more of those, the darker the series. This series does not have many dark elements, simple as that. Considering that most of us here are men, we want something that can appeal to us as well, even if it's toku.

Only? Considering how fast the first quarter went by and that we have 3 more to go, it's quite a big deal. The problem with the upgrades having no downsides is the fact that the base forms will be pointless. For example, why use Flame Style when Flame Dragon is significantly stronger and has no downside? When I say no one takes them seriously, I am talking about the cast. Why the hell would I speak for the fans in that context?

They are obviously there to make new Phantoms but we don't know why. Any 12 year old would think they'll probably just kill people once they reach their goal but considering the concept of Phantoms and how they are made, there's obviously a secret agenda somewhere.

I understand that I type fairly long posts but do understand what the hell the context I'm speaking in is.
We are not all men no. That is a HUGE misconception on your part. That said, as an adult, you should know that the vast majority of the toku we all watch is for children. We enjoy it, we discuss it, some people debate the merits of each show and it's writing/directing.. But in the end we are enjoying shows about dudes in spandex and leather fighting rubber suited monsters. As long as I am having fun with the show I don't care if it's "dark" or comedy.

Maybe and maybe no. I don't think less of a show because the use a power up more often than the un-powered up forms. I only wanted clarity on that part. Some people speak for the fans. It makes even less sense now that you made what you meant clear. What do you mean the cast doesn't care about the form changes. The characters in show care a great deal about those form changes. That is clear in each episode that he gets one.

Yes there is a secret agenda. You just seem to not want to wait for them to tell us what that agenda is. You were not clear in your context.
 

NateRiver

Welcome
It has the potential to be one of the best Kamen Rider series but there are a few things that really let me down.

-Still really kiddy. It's been a while since we've had a modern series that was dark. W is the closest thing we've got but it isn't enough IMO. Considering how ridiculously lighthearted Fourze was, I expected something darker than usual for Wizard.

-Form upgrades are not taken seriously by anyone, not even the user. They are stated to have consequences later on but they've been used about 4 times now.(3 for Flame Dragon and 1 for Hurricane Dragon) It's a major problem since the base forms are almost pointless now.

-Regarding the villains again, Phoenix is a joke. Despite looking awesome and having a badass sword, he's all talk. He got killed by the first form upgrade...and there's still more upgrades on the way. He's supposed to be some sort of cliched evil and crazy villain but he's way too weak to even fulfill that role. The fact he's scared of Medusa does not help his case. I hope he gets another form or something in the future because there's no way Haruto will take him seriously by the time he gets his All Dragon style or whatever it'll be called.

-Like you said, Haruto said a line basically stating that he doesn't really care about the consequences.The thing is that this was intentional, and is probably actually come up again.They're saving this whole thing for an arc later in the series.The Dragon forms most likely drain Haruto's mana faster, as after Flame Dragon's debut, it's been reduced to a simple finisher.

-Phoenix was playing around with Haruto. He assumed that Haruto was just as weak as last time and didn't try because he thought he would win.Phoenix just got caught off guard.Also, I think don't think he's that scared of Medusa.

-There is no Kamen Rider show that is dark and gritty.The closest thing you'll get to that is Shin and that was a movie.If you're looking for something full of angst, there's always Faiz.
 

bleachjoj

Member
So? Gamel turned a car full of people into Cell Medals, is he a great villain? :laugh:

Seriously though, something like that doesn't automatically mean the person's... to be frank, it's pretty much liking him for dumb reasons.

I was explaining how Phoenix wasn't all talk. That wasn't my sole reason for liking him. I like him for his personality and his actions.

Kamen Rider has demonstrated its ability to be dark multiple times. Most of them were during the Showa era but there are good examples in the Heisei era as well. The ceremony isn't exactly dark even though it is literally. There's nothing that implies they're really trying to kill people, all we've been seeing is the birth of new Phantoms. Killing people is an awful motive for the big bad, it's obvious that there's something else we don't know.

Never said it was the ultimate motive. But seeing people crack and die is not lighthearted. And that dark feeling you think those shows had would not fly today. Times change, what was shown on TV then would not be shown today. Doesn't change that it's still a kids show. If you want dark watch Garo.

That's the point. After 4 uses we have no idea what Dragon is talking about. Haruto's words don't mean anything compared to the Dragon that's giving him the power in the first place.

You expect the effects to take place so soon. Koyomi mentioned the episode right after that the ring still bothered her but Haruto was confident it would be alright. So it will probably happen later. They didn't forget.

How is that a feat? That just proved my point. Beating the crap out of someone who is over 10 times weaker than you is nothing. It's great that he is sadistic but he'd have to demonstrate that sadism on Wizard in order for that to have any significance. Same applies to Phoenix killing a Gate before. He's just all talk and hasn't done crap. He has potential but his power level and accomplishments are nothing. Letting Medusa take control is incredibly cliched and kinda dumb if you think about it. That basically means Phoenix will be her ***** for a while, downplaying him even more.


He did that already episodes 8 and 9 when he was kicking the crap outta him. Did it again in episode 11. The thing is we haven't seen Phoenix go all out yet. And I think your over exaggerating him being scared of Medusa. He's back down a couple of times because she puts him in check we he's not focused but it's not like he's scared to talk back.
 
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Tendou Soujiro

Kamen Rider Dark Kabuto
We are not all men no. That is a HUGE misconception on your part. That said, as an adult, you should know that the vast majority of the toku we all watch is for children. We enjoy it, we discuss it, some people debate the merits of each show and it's writing/directing.. But in the end we are enjoying shows about dudes in spandex and leather fighting rubber suited monsters. As long as I am having fun with the show I don't care if it's "dark" or comedy.

Maybe and maybe no. I don't think less of a show because the use a power up more often than the un-powered up forms. I only wanted clarity on that part. Some people speak for the fans. It makes even less sense now that you made what you meant clear. What do you mean the cast doesn't care about the form changes. The characters in show care a great deal about those form changes. That is clear in each episode that he gets one.

Yes there is a secret agenda. You just seem to not want to wait for them to tell us what that agenda is. You were not clear in your context.

I meant on this forum, FFS. I am well aware that the target audience for Kamen Rider is children but I am also well aware that there are many grown fans. Kamen Rider has gone out of its way before to appeal to those fans. That is a very valid point but some of us want more and since they've given it to us before, we want it again.

The only time they were really surprised was with Flame Dragon. Even then it wasn't really a "holy ****" moment for the cast, seeing as how in the next episode it was considered old news. When the Hurricane Dragon ring was finished, the cast did care but they really downplayed it as if it were the Smell ring. When he finally used it, Haruto pretty much acted as if he knew exactly what the form was already, which makes some sense but again it really downplayed a form that's supposed to be stronger than one of the big villains.

I can see what you mean seeing as how I'm extremely lacking in patience. My point is that while the goal of world domination is cliched, it's quite obvious that they have another goal in mind but they haven't given a single hint as to what it might be. The problem with that is that I'm constantly asking myself "why are they doing this again? If it's for world domination, why don't they kill Haruto while they still can?"
 
That doesn't mean it always have to mainly appeal to the older viewers in terms of setting all the time.

And you can't say we haven't been told things. When was the last time we'd gotten told a lot about the villains?

Compare by episode 12 in the last few years;
W had just done the first real arc showing specifics about the Sonozaki familiy.
OOO didn't really show a lot at this point.
Fourze still left us unknowing regarding motives for Gamou.

But it's the fact it looks like a cliche storyline that actually makes it more interesting to see what happens. Because there's many ways for a story to end out in a world domination like story.
 

Painted_Outlaw

The new Tendou Souji
It sounds to me like you are one of those people that is like "I need everything told to me now. I can not wait to see what happens. I want no surprises. I want all characters to have a set point to their existence at all times no questions"

Oh please, it's not like its Agito and is delicately and wonderfully pacing how to work its story beats. If it was, maybe it wouldn't have say, just dumped the whole "Shunpei may know magic" plot so quickly (then again otoh, keeping it too long could just make another Mutsuki plot which'd prolly be awful so, I dunno).

If you're looking for something full of angst, there's always Faiz.

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Yeah... angst.
 

KingRanger

Banned
Owouldn't have say, just dumped the whole "Shunpei may know magic" plot so quickly .

What are you talking about? That wasn't even the point of his episodes. He never knew magic. He never was supposed to know magic. Did you not watch his intro arc?
 

Tendou Soujiro

Kamen Rider Dark Kabuto
That doesn't mean it always have to mainly appeal to the older viewers in terms of setting all the time.

And you can't say we haven't been told things. When was the last time we'd gotten told a lot about the villains?

Compare by episode 12 in the last few years;
W had just done the first real arc showing specifics about the Sonozaki familiy.
OOO didn't really show a lot at this point.
Fourze still left us unknowing regarding motives for Gamou.

But it's the fact it looks like a cliche storyline that actually makes it more interesting to see what happens. Because there's many ways for a story to end out in a world domination like story.

I never said that. It's one thing to take my words out of context, it's another thing to claim I said something I didn't. My point is considering how lighthearted and upbeat OOO and Fourze were, you'd expect Wizard to be darker than it is now.

The previous series have told us more than enough about the villains by the 12th episode. I'll give you Fourze because it had even less main villains than Wizard. Gamou was really the only big bad so he was the only one who could give us hints about what the big plan was.
 

Painted_Outlaw

The new Tendou Souji
What are you talking about? That wasn't even the point of his episodes. He never knew magic. He never was supposed to know magic. Did you not watch his intro arc?

I know the whole thing was that he was a gate and that Hellhound was the one really doing the fire magic and blahblahblah. I'm just saying that if they cared at all about pacing, they could have maybe dragged that out over more episodes...

...maybe have him learn more about magic and then around the mid-20s, have him realize that Hellhound was behind it all and that everything up till then had been a lie. Take time showing him come to grips with it and then set up a fight between him and the Phantom.... the best case scenario here would be that Shunpei would unlock his own magic defeating Hellhound and/but, I'm sure Bandai would prolly try to squeeze out another Rider Suit for him (and if it was written delicately enough instead of "Oops, I fell down again!", I wouldn't mind it).
 

bleachjoj

Member
If they dragged that plot point I would of stopped caring. There would be no reason to drag it any longer than they had too. Hell Hound pretty much accomplished his goal but just lost to Wizard in the process. No need to drag that out. I mean if that's works for you that's fine.
 
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