What exactly is wrong with TV-Nihon subs?

[Malunis_T]

It was almost impossible to discuss any Decade episodes, because you were not allowed to talk about Riders that had appeared in shows that TV-Nihon hadn't subbed yet, so if a late Ryuki Rider appeared in a Decade episode, and someone talked about them, they would get a ban.

"Look guys if it's not on our site then it never happened, okay?"
That whole thing is probably the craziest TV-N fact I've heard. I think I might have to share it with the world, lol.



When it comes to TV-N I only watch stuff they've subbed in full so I don't need to wait a week, Over-Time's my main source for whatever's current.

I don't mind honorifics (though I like O-T's attempts to actually DO something with them) but they really should realize that it's okay to translate -tachi. I'm all for keeping in certain things because of puns or because it's an attack name, but when there's no point in keeping in the original word and there's a perfectly acceptable english equivalent, it seems lazy.

There's also the discussion of hardsubs VS softsubs but honestly I delete the stuff as soon as I finish watching so unless I'm making a music video I don't need the raw episodes. But I digress.

 

[Glamador]

[hide]Those who say that the Over-Time team get too creative with their subs should really try to watch an official release done by a professional translator.
If we have to go by Tokusatsu, then watch the official sub for V3, which was subbed by JN Productions, Inc.

Their subs are a pretty good example of how a professional translator works.
There are a lot of scenes, where the words have been changed completely to make the dialogue more fluent and more like something you would hear an English speaker say.

For example, there are many times where "onore!" is translated differently depending on what situation the character is in.
For example, a scene where Kazami has been thrown around by a monster. Before he transform, he says "onore!", which in that scene gets translated into "That's it!"

In the same scene, when the monster fights against both V3 and Nigo, it shouts "Onore!", which this time is translated into "cowards!"
It is not correct, but "damn you!" just seem like an unnatural word to use in all situations.
Sometimes it can sound right. Other times... not so much.

Do you honestly think that English gets translated 100% as well, when it gets subbed?
I can't speak for other countries, but in my country you will never see a 100% literal translation...
Heck, you will be lucky if you see one that is 60%!
Usually the dialogue gets shortened in the sub, so a lot of filler-words are removed, and you only get the basic meaning of what they are saying.
A lot of words like â€yesâ€, â€no†are sometimes not even translated.
In Chinese movies, where the dialogue is usually spoken very fast, the translators in my country will often skip some lines to lengthen the more important ones, so that people can get a chance to read them.
You will NEVER see a second line suddenly appear below the first line, because someone interrupts.

Actually, this is something I never understood, and it is something that both OT and TVN does.
When two characters are speaking, and the lines are fairly short. Why not put them together?
For example, a short exchange of words in an official sub would usually look like this:

- Are you alright?
- Yeah.

In a fansub, that dialogue would get split up into two lines. Why?
The timing of the subs is one of the most boring and time-consuming parts of the job. Why make it harder by keeping all the dialogue separate?.
As I said before, I usually re-translate the OT softsubs into my own language, so my siblings can watch the shows, and I usually put some of the lines together as seen above.
I think most of the times I cut down the number of lines in the srt.file by 50 or so.[/hide]

After reading through a couple threads on TVN forums (including one admonishing the Ni No Kuni "dubtitles") I've reached what seems to be the principle divide between Takenoko's subbing method and others (like Gomen-Rider).

What some people want is a LOCALIZED production, which is what Gomen-Rider and others do. Japanese names are changed to English ones (Voltosaur), puns are changed to their nearest English equivalent, honorifics are replaced by what would be considered the appropriate level of polite speech in English, etc. These people are not necessarily interested in Japanese culture or preserving it in the translated script. They care more about not needing any background knowledge to enjoy the action and the narrative as it is presented.

What others want is a literal translation with all cultural references intact. These kinds of subs are for people that want to preserve the original product as closely as possible, and perhaps are looking to learn or facilitate their learning of the Japanese language or culture. Perhaps they wish they could speak Japanese but can't and these are the next best thing. Perhaps their entire reason for liking the subject matter is because it is so foreign to them and that is a novelty. Any localizing done removes some of that appeal.



Going back to Ni No Kuni (the translation of which Takenoko was very displeased with); it is a completely different experience in English vs. Japanese. Character names are completely changed (Mark [JPN] -> Phillip [ENG]), honorifics are nowhere to be seen, and for some weird reason they filled it chock full of puns. Puns everywhere. "Your Meowjesty", "Your Moojesty", "Sleepeafowl", "Purrrloiner"...everywhere. And as far as I can tell that was just b/c the translators just wanted to have fun with it.

This doesn't preserve the original experience at all. There is no alternate subtitle track w/ a more literal translation either. But this is to be expected because even though it is a Japanese game, it isn't a game for weaboos. It's meant to sell as many copies as possible to people that possibly aren't even aware that it came from Japan.


I've heard say that you should know your audience. TVN has an audience that they cater to. It's great that people not in that audience have alternatives now. But trying to push TVN out of vogue or praise OT for doing it differently is prejudiced and unsympathetic. Because not everyone WANTS the viewing experience OT provides.

 

[KingRanger]

I But trying to push TVN out of vogue or praise OT for doing it differently is prejudiced and unsympathetic. Because not everyone WANTS the viewing experience OT provides.

If that's what you got out of all of this then you never will quite understand. It is not just the Translation "style".

T-N translators have also said the reason they leave Japanese untranslated is because "Japanese words sound cooler"

 

[ChiPsiUp]

I just hate how they use words + "-tachi".

 

[Shir]

I just hate how they use words + "-tachi".

Did that kid get punched in the face too often?

 

[Glamador]

If that's what you got out of all of this then you never will quite understand. It is not just the Translation "style".

T-N translators have also said the reason they leave Japanese untranslated is because "Japanese words sound cooler"

Is that not a valid viewpoint? I find the word "asparagus" to be utterly silly. I bet the Japanese word for that would be much more dramatic sounding if vegetables were in a position to sound dramatic.

But what YOU aren't understanding is that it IS *just* a style. If there aren't persistent mistranslations then everything else is just window dressing. And that's the long and the short of it.

 

[KingRanger]

Is that not a valid viewpoint? I find the word "asparagus" to be utterly silly. I bet the Japanese word for that would be much more dramatic sounding if vegetables were in a position to sound dramatic.

But what YOU aren't understanding is that it IS *just* a style. If there aren't persistent mistranslations then everything else is just window dressing. And that's the long and the short of it.

Like many others you just don't seem to understand what a Translation is. That's fine. This is why we have weaboo subs.

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

You know, after giving it some thought, it does make sense.

As it has been said, many translators prefer a more personalized translation that fits the personality types of each character rather than a straight forward translation. And I do like this kind of thinking.

Looking back on it now, I only saw TV-Nihon's version of Kamen Rider Den-O. While the overall story they gave us in the original series was better than the constant movies and spinoffs/tie-ins that came afterwards, I just failed to see what anyone else saw in Den-O. I failed to see the charm that made Den-O so popular in Japan in the first place. Most of the time, it just felt boring if not frustrating. Aside from their questionable translations and transliterations, maybe this was one of the shining examples of colorful character personalities being too much for the kind of translations TV-Nihon usually gives us.

I went on to watch Midnight Crew Subs' version of AbaRanger, and I have to say that it was brilliant! "They're fighting with reckless abandon!"/"That's it! Burstosaur Squad Abaranger!" That play on words was handled so perfectly, I couldn't have done better myself! Makes me feel like the people behind the sub have a care and passion for the show and went out of their way to make sure they subbed it right. Made me decide to drop anything by Skewed completely. Now, I cannot wait to see how MCS is handling Den-O. I hope they are still active...

 

[jackhunter]

I had a discussion about this with Kaizoku fansub crew, and they pointed out an interesting argument: Words like ninja or samurais are never translated in english or other languages, people dont use "assassin" or "knight" for them".

So not translating a word like "nakama" for example, can be ok, because it has become widely known in the world of anime's fans, its not a problem if dictionaries dont accept those words, because fansubs have a different goal, they are not like universities or official translators.

 

[Shynilyte]

Samurai actually came about in Japan and existed only in Japanese history, but nakama refers to something that can exist outside of Japan, no? Sounds like a bit of a stretch to suggest that "Japanese friends/comrades" requires a special term the way "Japanese knights" gets.